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Frost is doubling down on his system with the Lubick hire

DuckTownHusker

Blackshirt Sith Lord
5 Year Member
I think we can let go of the hope for FB play in the Frost era. I understand the sentiment intended here - not suggesting you are saying you want a FB on the roster again - but that position doesn't fit in his scheme. Now TE is another matter ... if Nebraska is intentional about including the TE in the plan I think we'd all be happy.

Probably fall over in amazement, but we'd be happy.
Yeah, I'm not necessarily meaning a Makovicka run up the gut, but a combination of backs that give us power AND speed, plus some meaty perimeter guys to setup blocks.

Picture Abdullah and Janovich alternating in the backfield with like a Matt Herrian type TE and/or some Kenny Bell blocking from the WRs.
 
Hopefully his first few hours involves shredding the swing pass pages in the playbook.
Absolutely! We never again want to have to put up with seeing things like this!...


I’m in the camp that a Pac 12/Big 12 spread offense won’t work in the Big 10. We’ve been trying variations of it for what, a decade now? Not much success. Northwestern and Indiana run that style with limited success. I just don’t think that scheme holds up to the physicality of the conference.
Ohio State runs a spread-style offense that is closer in theory to Nebraska's than it is to any other offense in the B1G, and they seem to be doing okay with it. Minnesota just turned their program around with a spread offense. Michigan just switched to a spread offense. Penn State has been running a spread offense, and they used it to win the only B1G championship in the past 5 years that Ohio State did NOT win. Wisconsin--the recent Holy Grail of a successful B1G Ground & Pound offense--has been steadily adding an increasing percentage of spread offense plays, series, and formations to their offensive playbook.

Other than that, though, you're right: spread offenses can't work in the B1G.

What Minny was running looked a lot like what Frost probably imagined coming in.
What Minnesota runs is a very vanilla, very traditional Spread-to-RPO offense with a heavy reliance on 2x2 offensive sets, and the Quick-Slant pass is the backbone of the passing part of the RPO. Frost's offense has mixed formations and lots of motion to be able to attack out-of-position defenders and look for mismatches, and the base portion of the passing part of Frost's RPO are variations of Bubble Screens/Tunnel Screens/Smoke Screens/RB Screens, all of which a lot of folks on this board apparently want to call "Swing Passes."

One could argue systems don’t work against certain systems till blue in the face. The only systems that don’t have match up issues have elite talent all over the field.
Excellent point.

Screen pass to the slot receiver (Spielman or W. Robinson) is going to look a lot better with Omar Manning out in front of them blocking. Underneath routes to the slot receiver are going to look a lot better with Omar Manning getting downfield. “That guy” on the outside is the piece we didn’t have in 2019 that we did in 2018 (Stanley Morgan). Whether it was talent or coaching, I don’t know, but we had zero presence at outside receiver in 2019. Manning can be that guy assuming he takes care of things academically. Just that one guy alone may make Lubick look like twice the coach that Walters was.
This guy gets it.

They don't need to remove it, but it should be at the very back of the playbook until we develop the threat of a downfield/vertical passing game
They're intertwined, often even on the same play call. A common option route on a Bubble Screen is for the outside WR to the screen side to block for a second on his defender then release deep. If the defender covers that WR going deep, the play is still the screen pass behind him, and his covering the WR took him out of the play as well or better than if the WR had to block him for the whole time; if he doesn't cover the WR going deep? The QB fakes the screen pass, throws it deep. Fans on this board celebrate the TD and congratulate themselves on their superior wisdom in knowing that we shouldn't throw so many of those darn "swing passes."

The horizontal passes are part of the RPOs that make up the foundation of the entire offense. To say that you want it put to the back of the playbook is just another way of saying that you want a different offense.

uh... Ohio state runs a spread system. Penn state runs one too.. Minnesota does as well.. Spread works. Hell spread works in NFL too as more and more teams are adopting its elements and running a mixed bag. As others have said, its getting your players to execute and be physical. That been the transitional element that makes us inconsistent. Part of that is development, another part is experience, and the rest is talent. But I wouldn't go so far as to say he completely relies on the spread system. He wouldn't have dashed those power formations in during the Ohio St game otherwise. I think its more, if we cant run our fundamentals consistent yet, we aren't ready for the power option either.
This guy gets it.
 

HuskerStu

Recruit
Personally, unless its some new innovative system that nobody has every seen, scheme is overrated. Take the past 30 national championship teams and they’d beat everyone with any type of offense
 

Let it be by the code

2019 Football practice champs!
2 Year Member
Absolutely! We never again want to have to put up with seeing things like this!...




Ohio State runs a spread-style offense that is closer in theory to Nebraska's than it is to any other offense in the B1G, and they seem to be doing okay with it. Minnesota just turned their program around with a spread offense. Michigan just switched to a spread offense. Penn State has been running a spread offense, and they used it to win the only B1G championship in the past 5 years that Ohio State did NOT win. Wisconsin--the recent Holy Grail of a successful B1G Ground & Pound offense--has been steadily adding an increasing percentage of spread offense plays, series, and formations to their offensive playbook.

Other than that, though, you're right: spread offenses can't work in the B1G.



What Minnesota runs is a very vanilla, very traditional Spread-to-RPO offense with a heavy reliance on 2x2 offensive sets, and the Quick-Slant pass is the backbone of the passing part of the RPO. Frost's offense has mixed formations and lots of motion to be able to attack out-of-position defenders and look for mismatches, and the base portion of the passing part of Frost's RPO are variations of Bubble Screens/Tunnel Screens/Smoke Screens/RB Screens, all of which a lot of folks on this board apparently want to call "Swing Passes."



Excellent point.



This guy gets it.



They're intertwined, often even on the same play call. A common option route on a Bubble Screen is for the outside WR to the screen side to block for a second on his defender then release deep. If the defender covers that WR going deep, the play is still the screen pass behind him, and his covering the WR took him out of the play as well or better than if the WR had to block him for the whole time; if he doesn't cover the WR going deep? The QB fakes the screen pass, throws it deep. Fans on this board celebrate the TD and congratulate themselves on their superior wisdom in knowing that we shouldn't throw so many of those darn "swing passes."

The horizontal passes are part of the RPOs that make up the foundation of the entire offense. To say that you want it put to the back of the playbook is just another way of saying that you want a different offense.



This guy gets it.
I actually like our offense when the qb running it is healthy and it can be fully utilized.

I get that you know a lot about football, but when you start putting words in people's mouths it comes off as smug, not knowledgable.
 

ramsker

Short...but slow
10 Year Member
Absolutely! We never again want to have to put up with seeing things like this!...
Oh, good . . . the one time it worked by the dude who isn't even here anymore.

Show us the other clips where this happened with the swing pass. Start with the Iowa game. Should probably have a look at your sarcasm meter while you're at it. Although your condescension settings appear to be on point.
 
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Captkenny

Junior Varsity
10 Year Member
Oh, good . . . the one time it worked by the dude who isn't even here anymore.

Show us the other clips where this happened with the swing pass. Start with the Iowa game. Should probably have a look at your sarcasm meter while you're at it. Although your condescension settings appear to be on point.
Why is he responsible for doing your tape review for you? This play can be, and has been very effective for us. But just like any other play, you need proper timing, talent like MW, and execution by the WR’s. Don’t get your hopes up that this type of play is going away anytime soon.
 

ramsker

Short...but slow
10 Year Member
Why is he responsible for doing your tape review for you? This play can be, and has been very effective for us. But just like any other play, you need proper timing, talent like MW, and execution by the WR’s. Don’t get your hopes up that this type of play is going away anytime soon.
I don't expect it to go away . . . don't take my post about shredding it so literally. It's more a comment on how absolutely lousy the execution has been on those behind-the-line passes and how often we went to the well on a play we can't run very well. I DO want it to be run effectively if you're going to insist on making it a core play in your attack. Receivers who block, etc, It hasn't been run well for the most part in 2 years under Frost (or even before that when Riley/Langs would try to use those plays).
 
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ShortSideOption

All American
10 Year Member
Oh, good . . . the one time it worked by the dude who isn't even here anymore.

Show us the other clips where this happened with the swing pass. Start with the Iowa game. Should probably have a look at your sarcasm meter while you're at it. Although your condescension settings appear to be on point.

Bottom one ;)
 
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ramsker

Short...but slow
10 Year Member
Well you already won’t let us count the 2019 one because the RB got booted. Now I can’t count the 2018 one with the guy coming back due to the year?
I was more chuckling that the next example posted of running those plays effectively came from the year before.

I'll reiterate what I said a litle further above. I don't expect those plays to go away . . . don't take my post about shredding it so literally. It's more a comment on how absolutely lousy the execution has been on those behind-the-line passes and how often we went to the well on a play we can't run very well. I DO want it to be run effectively if you're going to insist on making it a core play in your attack. Receivers who block, etc, It hasn't been run well for the most part in 2 years under Frost (or even before that when Riley/Langs would try to use those plays).
 
Here are two things that you should also keep in mind going forward:
  1. First, the "swing pass" is a very minimal part of our offense as that is technically a pass to a back coming out of the backfield WITHOUT blockers in front of him; you're not alone in being confused by this as Matt Millen called it that, too, during the Iowa game, but if there are blockers downfield before the ball is caught, and if the ball is caught behind the Line-of-Scrimmage, that's a screen pass, regardless of who catches it, and regardless of who is blocking downfield. Some screen passes to a back out of the backfield look a lot like a swing pass, but if you call all of them "swing passes," it doesn't help your argument.
  2. Screen passes are the foundational part of the passing element of Frost's offense, and they're not going away; we executed them very poorly last year, so hopefully that changes, but until those screen passes are legitimate threats to keep the defense from putting more than 6 defenders in the Box, our entire offense will not work. We're not alone in that as approximately 2/3 of the offenses of the top 25 teams would say the same, even if they're not running it as often as we do.
 

Fly

Recruit
Absolutely! We never again want to have to put up with seeing things like this!...




Ohio State runs a spread-style offense that is closer in theory to Nebraska's than it is to any other offense in the B1G, and they seem to be doing okay with it. Minnesota just turned their program around with a spread offense. Michigan just switched to a spread offense. Penn State has been running a spread offense, and they used it to win the only B1G championship in the past 5 years that Ohio State did NOT win. Wisconsin--the recent Holy Grail of a successful B1G Ground & Pound offense--has been steadily adding an increasing percentage of spread offense plays, series, and formations to their offensive playbook.

Other than that, though, you're right: spread offenses can't work in the B1G.



What Minnesota runs is a very vanilla, very traditional Spread-to-RPO offense with a heavy reliance on 2x2 offensive sets, and the Quick-Slant pass is the backbone of the passing part of the RPO. Frost's offense has mixed formations and lots of motion to be able to attack out-of-position defenders and look for mismatches, and the base portion of the passing part of Frost's RPO are variations of Bubble Screens/Tunnel Screens/Smoke Screens/RB Screens, all of which a lot of folks on this board apparently want to call "Swing Passes."



Excellent point.



This guy gets it.



They're intertwined, often even on the same play call. A common option route on a Bubble Screen is for the outside WR to the screen side to block for a second on his defender then release deep. If the defender covers that WR going deep, the play is still the screen pass behind him, and his covering the WR took him out of the play as well or better than if the WR had to block him for the whole time; if he doesn't cover the WR going deep? The QB fakes the screen pass, throws it deep. Fans on this board celebrate the TD and congratulate themselves on their superior wisdom in knowing that we shouldn't throw so many of those darn "swing passes."

The horizontal passes are part of the RPOs that make up the foundation of the entire offense. To say that you want it put to the back of the playbook is just another way of saying that you want a different offense.



This guy gets it.
Absolutely! It's not the screen or "swing passes" that were bad it was the abisimal blocking. The plays will look much better if we can block them which in turn will open up the long ball
 

ShortSideOption

All American
10 Year Member
I was more chuckling that the next example posted of running those plays effectively came from the year before.

I'll reiterate what I said a litle further above. I don't expect those plays to go away . . . don't take my post about shredding it so literally. It's more a comment on how absolutely lousy the execution has been on those behind-the-line passes and how often we went to the well on a play we can't run very well. I DO want it to be run effectively if you're going to insist on making it a core play in your attack. Receivers who block, etc, It hasn't been run well for the most part in 2 years under Frost (or even before that when Riley/Langs would try to use those plays).
I hear ya, I literally just googled JD Spielman and found that since Washington didn’t count. If opponents stack the box, that’s our go to. It’s not going away. And I really don’t care to rewatch film to find Robinson, JD, or Mills having success with it in 2019.

But to what I think your point is, Frost and his QB (Martinez more than likely) need to know Robinson and JD can’t block for the Stoll swing pass.
 
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