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DiNardo on Scott Frost

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solesrfr

Varsity
5 Year Member
Someone triggered by the thought? I am amused by how even the subject of faith coming up on a college football fan site is somehow controversial or odd. Quick, name the top ten atheist football coaches of all time! Top five? Top three? Anybody? Bueller? Bueller?

I'm not saying that it's impossible to be a successful college coach apart from some semblance of faith being present in your life, but it's certainly a lot more rare. I am saying that a huge percentage of top-level college football coaches who are also family and relationship-oriented tend to also be religious people, especially if you include the hypocrites who talk the talk without walking the walk. Want proof? Time for a Google experiment.

Let's look at the coaches who have won national championships in this millenium--all of whom appear to be happily married, fwiw--and let's look at what shows up in a Google search when I use their name plus something anodyne like "faith." Click on the NC-winning coaches' names below to see what ten minutes on Google shows:

[Trigger warning for people who are opposed to Christianity]

Bob Stoops
Larry Coker
Jim Tressel
Pete Carroll
Nick Saban
Mack Brown
Urban Meyer
Les Miles
Gene Chizit
Jimbo Fisher
Dabo Swinney

That's ... unanimous. Wow! Based on the available data, it is irrefutable that Nebraska's best chances of winning a national championship this millennium would come from having a faith-based, family-oriented coach.

Well, aren't we lucky!...


Tom Osborne approves of this message.

I posted a silly Black Jesus gif, don't call me triggered. Your 1000 word essay response looks more like a person who is triggered.



C
 

Elwood von Kiowa

Grad Assistant
5 Year Member
I can absolutely see that perspective, and I've held it at times. McCartney was a hypocrite at times, but it's without question that he fits the profile of a successful coach whose faith came before football.
I would say the most glaring example of McCartney's hypocrisy was his inciting the Buff crowd to hate the Huskers. I know some think that's part of any rivalry, but not I.
 
Since most, if not all, coaches are religious I find it nonsensical that you’re listing coaches who’ve won NC’s as some sort of proof. I’m not triggered by it, it is what it is. But I don’t find, as an atheist myself, it difficult to hold my family above everything else. I’m a stay at home dad so you could say I’ve even forgone my career at this point to care for my children. I didn’t need faith to make this decision, nor would it have made it any easier for me.
Is it true that "most, if not all, coaches are religious?" I don't know that that's true, fwiw, but it seems to hold very true for those who are the most successful at the high school and college levels. Why?

While I'm happy for you and your family that you place them above the job, that would be an anecdote, and it has nothing to do with the question of what it takes to have the proper life-work balance as a top level head coach.
 
I would say the most glaring example of McCartney's hypocrisy was his inciting the Buff crowd to hate the Huskers. I know some think that's part of any rivalry, but not I.
I agree. I always thought it was incredibly out of character for everything else he said. My theory is that he went to college at Missouri when they had a heated rivalry with Kansas, and then he coached at Michigan, whose hatred of Ohio State is legendary, so I think that he thought that it was a necessary part of being a successful college football program. It's a theory.
 

The Impaler

Cake or Death?
10 Year Member
Is it true that "most, if not all, coaches are religious?" I don't know that that's true, fwiw, but it seems to hold very true for those who are the most successful at the high school and college levels. Why?

While I'm happy for you and your family that you place them above the job, that would be an anecdote, and it has nothing to do with the question of what it takes to have the proper life-work balance as a top level head coach.
And nothing you’ve said indicates faith makes it easier. Quite honestly, I’m sure there are atheist coaches, but can you name me one? You pointing to the successful coaches that are religious ignores the other side of the coin, the many failures as coaches that are religious. It’s not a requirement and you provided no proof that is.

Edit, we should take this to pm if you want to continue. A topic better suited for the cafe which I stay away from.
 
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And nothing you’ve said indicates faith makes it easier.
I don't think that you're following the gist of what I'm saying. There's nothing easy about any of this. I'm saying that there are an unusually large number of highly successful coaches who claim that their faith has been an organizing principle in how they have balanced their lives. When it's sincere I think that the Christian faith will provide a strong incentive for a person to value relationships over worldly success, but you can't get or keep coaching jobs without winning.

Quite honestly, I’m sure there are atheist coaches, but can you name me one?
You're making my point for me.

You pointing to the successful coaches that are religious ignores the other side of the coin, the many failures as coaches that are religious.
Yet they were hired. Some of it is the Peter Principle at work where every coach will eventually be promoted until he's no longer competent at that level, but that's true for all.

It’s not a requirement and you provided no proof that is.
I never said that it was a requirement. Based on the data, it looks like a pretty strong correlation.

Edit, we should take this to pm if you want to continue. A topic better suited for the cafe which I stay away from.
This really is intertwined with what DiNardo was talking about, which is different from just railing for or against Christianity. Also, we're not calling each other names, etc.
 

Blue Howl

Drink up, Shriner!
5 Year Member
Maybe my memory is faulty on this point, but I don't remember Barry Switzer or Jimmy Johnson being known for their religious faith.
 

The Impaler

Cake or Death?
10 Year Member
I don't think that you're following the gist of what I'm saying. There's nothing easy about any of this. I'm saying that there are an unusually large number of highly successful coaches who claim that their faith has been an organizing principle in how they have balanced their lives. When it's sincere I think that the Christian faith will provide a strong incentive for a person to value relationships over worldly success, but you can't get or keep coaching jobs without winning.



You're making my point for me.



Yet they were hired. Some of it is the Peter Principle at work where every coach will eventually be promoted until he's no longer competent at that level, but that's true for all.



I never said that it was a requirement. Based on the data, it looks like a pretty strong correlation.



This really is intertwined with what DiNardo was talking about, which is different from just railing for or against Christianity. Also, we're not calling each other names, etc.
The reason I wanted to take it to pm is so the thread wouldn’t be derailed on a religious argument.

With that being said, I feel like you’re a bit all over the place here. I stated that it seems most coaches are or claim/appear to be religious which you argued probably isn’t the case. So then I ask if you can name an atheist coach because I can’t and you say I’m making your point. So then, you do agree that there really aren’t any, or at least many? So then comes the central point, about faith being a key component. This is the crux for me, it clearly doesn’t seem to be “a strong correlation” since basically the VAST majority of coaches are religious. There are more that fail at achieving that highest level then succeed. I’d say the strongest correlation is having a meticulous football mind as well as the ability to motivate both the people that work for you and the kids you recruit. As for certain coaches attributing that to their faith I have no doubt they believe that. I also have no doubt these successful coaches would find success even if they weren’t religious because they’re just damn good at what they do for the reasons I stated above.
 
Maybe my memory is faulty on this point, but I don't remember Barry Switzer or Jimmy Johnson being known for their religious faith.
And, you're making my point. Barry was a scumbag in his private life who liked to bang his assistant coach's wife in the hotel before bowl games. Jimmy kicked his wife out so he could focus on football. Both won at football, and neither is someone that would last at Nebraska.
 
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Opie14

Recruit
Umm shouldn’t you compare the 3 classes prior to Dabo to the three classes prior to SF. You’re not comparing apples to apples
 

Blue Howl

Drink up, Shriner!
5 Year Member
And, you're making my point. Barry was a scumbag in his private life who like to bang his assistant coache's wife in the hotel before bowl games. Jimmy kicked his wife out so he could focus on football. Both won at football, and neither is someone that would last at Nebraska.
If that was your point then I agree, Switzer and Johnson would never have fit at Nebraska. But I thought this was your point (see quote below), and I was just presenting two successful college coaches who immediately came to mind who didn't fit the profile that you were stating. I am sure there are others. By the way, as I understand it, Bob Devaney became a committed Christian later in life thanks to the influence of Tom Osborne, but while he was coaching I don't believe there was a strong Christian component to his coaching philosophy. If I am wrong about that I am all ears.
I don't think that you're following the gist of what I'm saying. There's nothing easy about any of this. I'm saying that there are an unusually large number of highly successful coaches who claim that their faith has been an organizing principle in how they have balanced their lives.
 
If that was your point then I agree, Switzer and Johnson would never have fit at Nebraska. But I thought this was your point (see quote below), and I was just presenting two successful college coaches who immediately came to mind who didn't fit the profile that you were stating. I am sure there are others. By the way, as I understand it, Bob Devaney became a committed Christian later in life thanks to the influence of Tom Osborne, but while he was coaching I don't believe there was a strong Christian component to his coaching philosophy. If I am wrong about that I am all ears.
It looks like we're pretty much in agreement about everything that you mentioned. There was/is so much more to say about all of this, but my posts are already reaching Tolstoy length, so I have to leave something out. There are and have been a lot of coaches who have won championships who weren't/aren't very honorable people in their lives outside of winning football games. Football acumen is not correlated to religious belief or moral turpitude or Mr. Rogers (the real one, not Mike Riley) would have been the best football coach of the 20th century. In college football more than professional football, it really matters how it all balances out. A guy like Barry could win championships, and he was possibly one of the greatest offensive-minded head coaches in history, yet even at Oklahoma he was eventually chased out the door because of all that was happening off the field. Fwiw, both Barry and Jimmy Johnson were very committed to building relationships with their players, but I think that it was more as a buddy than as a role model/mentor.

Another coaching personality type is the mercenary. These guys are common, and they're usually self-absorbed. Often, they're also really smart and know a lot about football. I'd put Urban Meyer in this category. I'm not so sure that Nick Saban doesn't fit into this category. There's some overlap. Whatever you want to say about Urban and Saban, I do believe that they genuinely care about their players who buy in. There are others who don't. Bobby Petrino comes to mind whenever I think of "scumbag coach," yet he was consistently able to smooth-talk recruits and college administrators alike.

As to what you said about Devaney, I don't think that he planned on staying at Nebraska indefinitely, but he had so much success so quickly that it would have been hard to walk away. If Duffy Daugherty had left after the '66 season, Devaney might have taken the Michigan State job at that time. In '68 and '69 he probably wished that he would have left. A couple of national championships later, and he's a secular saint in his adopted state ... emphasis on the "secular" part. If Nebraska ever sees the likes of another Bob Devaney--a NC winning coach with no prior ties to Nebraska--I have to believe that he'll be a mercenary-type who jumps ship immediately afterwards for his truckloads of cash to coach someplace warmer and easier.

Another coaching personality type (again, with lots of overlap) is my favorite: the homecoming alum. People seem to like to use the term "prodigal son" for guys like Harbaugh and Frost returning to their alma mater, but the term only applies if they were living like Charlie Sheen somewhere else for awhile before returning home. I LOVE that this seems to be the trend in the B1G. Besides Frost at Nebraska and Harbaugh at Michigan, we've got Fitzgerald at Northwestern, and Chryst at Wisconsin (who also has 2 WI alums as his OC and DC). I like that kind of loyalty.
 

anotherdumbprediction

Red Shirt
2 Year Member
Is it true that "most, if not all, coaches are religious?" I don't know that that's true, fwiw, but it seems to hold very true for those who are the most successful at the high school and college levels. Why?
Why? It is good marketing. Try running for elected office as an atheist and see how it goes. I’m sure there are many coaches who claim “faith” because it looks good. Furthermore, some of the biggest scumbags on earth are high-level religious leaders. Of course, they just have to ask for forgiveness and all is good. Crying helps too!

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HUSKER HOT SAUCE

Music Soothes My Soul
5 Year Member
Why? It is good marketing. Try running for elected office as an atheist and see how it goes. I’m sure there are many coaches who claim “faith” because it looks good. Furthermore, some of the biggest scumbags on earth are high-level religious leaders. Of course, they just have to ask for forgiveness and all is good. Crying helps too!

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Jumping Jeezers, I thought I was cynical.
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Pops

I have squandered my resistance
10 Year Member
Changes are needed without a doubt.

I don’t think we are at a point where we want to start throwing coaches out the door, but you have to wonder how a first year coach with lesser talent at Colorado could completely out-coach Frost and Company in that game last week.

He was also out-coached in the first game, and the statement he made in the presser after the South Alabama game didn’t exactly fill me with confidence when he said that South Alabama did some different things than they had shown on film. Was he taken by surprise by this? Isn’t figuring stuff like this out during a game one of the reason Frost is making a crap load of money?

I wouldn't necessarily say that core values are not part of the problem either, based on some quotes in this article. https://journalstar.com/sports/huskers/sipple/steven-m-sipple-fan-cynicism-sparks-up-after-loss-and/article_64d81723-6946-55d9-84f1-072247cb9ccc.amp.html

Of particular note are the quotes from Austin Allen and Erik Chinander. "Tight end Austin Allen told reporters that he didn't see enough energy on the sideline before kickoffs in last week's game. He saw more of that sort of energy last season, he said. Although it's just one young man's opinion, it gives you pause.

Nebraska defensive coordinator Erik Chinander spoke in plain terms about his unit's inability to finish the job at CU. Learning to finish is often part of a program's growth process, he said. He's right. Learning how to turn the knife is an art. Even so, it was disappointing to hear him say that some Husker defenders lacked a sense of urgency against the Buffaloes. Seriously?"
Listening to Uban Myer last week on TV he says any coach that blames the players without first blaming themselves will lose a team quicker than anyone
 
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