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Central Florida Draft Picks Year 2

HuskerNash

Recruit
2 Year Member
The all-conference awards go hand in hand with winning. Nebraska didn't really have all of those piles of all-conference players in the 80s if they weren't dominating the conference like they were. Likewise, if Nebraska finished above .500 last year, we'd have had a few more all-conference selections. That's just politics. The NFL Draft can't afford to be that biased.


Do you watch baseball at all? Are you old enough (or care enough about baseball) to remember Tom Herr? He was a mediocre 2nd baseman for the Cardinals, but the Twins made a trade for him and bragged at how they had gotten such a proven hitter, pointing at his RBI numbers. Tom Herr batted third in a lineup that had Vince Coleman and Willie McGee at the top of the order, and they just happened to be great hitters with world-class base-stealing speed, and one or the other or both was/were pretty much always on base when Tom Herr came up to hit. My grandma could have swung her walker at the strike zone if she batted in that position, and she would have had triple-digit RBIs each year. Tom Herr was a mediocre baseball player, but the fact that he batted with world-class speed always on the bases (and a distracted pitcher, catcher, and infield who were always worried about them stealing a base) meant that ANY contact with the ball that didn't result in a line-drive out was probably going to move the baserunners. It also helped his average that he had good hitters behind him, so nobody was ever going to walk him on purpose. He got big, juicy strikes to hit, and even a shallow pop fly to the outfield could score a couple runs.

That's the difference that being a bubble-level draft pick playing on a national contender means. If you play LB at Ohio State, Alabama, Michigan, or Clemson, you NEVER have to worry about getting caught in the wash because the O-line pushed your teammates back into your lane to fill to make a tackle' you're free to make plays, possibly even "go cowboy" and gamble to make big plays that look great on highlight film. There may be a basement level of speed and other measurements that you have to have, but every year there are guys drafted from the top-ranked teams who are NOT significantly better than guys who are left undrafted after playing on less glamorous teams. Stanley Morgan and Devine Ozigbo have better stats and get drafted if they're playing for Michigan; to their credit, the NFL did NOT draft Higdon from Michigan because he was the beneficiary of what I just described, having played behind a world-class O-line in a run-first offense.
You are totally missing the point. Your argument is Jared Crick benefits from playing on the same line as Suh. Who disputes that? Those that get paid in the NFL can figure this out to just as well as you and I can. That was not the argument. My point was teams with winning records are not dominating drafts because of their record but because of the talent they have recruited and developed.
 

Huskerthom

All Big 10
5 Year Member
You are totally missing the point. Your argument is Jared Crick benefits from playing on the same line as Suh. Who disputes that? Those that get paid in the NFL can figure this out to just as well as you and I can. That was not the argument. My point was teams with winning records are not dominating drafts because of their record but because of the talent they have recruited and developed.
Sort of a chicken/egg thing isn't it.?
 

ShortSideOption

All American
10 Year Member
The all-conference awards go hand in hand with winning. Nebraska didn't really have all of those piles of all-conference players in the 80s if they weren't dominating the conference like they were. Likewise, if Nebraska finished above .500 last year, we'd have had a few more all-conference selections. That's just politics. The NFL Draft can't afford to be that biased.
Disagree. We would have won more if we had more all conference players, and more NFL draft picks. We didn't.
 

HuskerNash

Recruit
2 Year Member
Sort of a chicken/egg thing isn't it.?
You could say so but I didn’t get the sense that that was the basis for your argument. Maybe I read it wrong but I got the impression that you were trying to argue that undeserving talent was being drafted on great teams while NFL scouts were routinely missing talent on teams with losing records because they were too busy scouting the big boys. I don’t believe that is happening with any consistency.
 

Huskerthom

All Big 10
5 Year Member
You could say so but I didn’t get the sense that that was the basis for your argument. Maybe I read it wrong but I got the impression that you were trying to argue that undeserving talent was being drafted on great teams while NFL scouts were routinely missing talent on teams with losing records because they were too busy scouting the big boys. I don’t believe that is happening with any consistency.
I do think that there are some guys that go unnoticed on losing teams because the scouts are not looking very hard at their teams because they are losing. Some of these are older but not all. Not a whole lot of winning teams in there.
 
Hell lately Alabama has probably averaged three first or second round picks per year and your argument contends that it’s because of “more eyes” on Alabama. That’s ridiculous, Alabama is producing millionaires down in Tuscaloosa because they have studs playing for them My position stands that your reply to wcbsas was smug and had no basis of fact.
If you're the starting Halfback for Alabama, you have a great shot at 1) winning a NC; 2) winning a Heisman; and 3) getting drafted higher by the NFL than if you played at any other school. You're probably a stud--because Alabama doesn't have to recruit 3-star RBs--but if you're a bubble RB in the draft at a lesser school, you're quite likely to be drafted because you played at Alabama.
 
Disagree. We would have won more if we had more all conference players, and more NFL draft picks. We didn't.
So, if Nebraska finishes 6-6, and Ohio State finishes 12-0, you don't think that that would affect all-conference voting for Fields vs Martinez? Substitute Michigan and Shea Patterson if you like. There isn't a team in the conference that wouldn't have Martinez starting at QB if he were on their roster, yet he's routinely listed as the 3rd best QB in the B1G.
 

cthusker

You talken to me?
5 Year Member
So, if Nebraska finishes 6-6, and Ohio State finishes 12-0, you don't think that that would affect all-conference voting for Fields vs Martinez? Substitute Michigan and Shea Patterson if you like. There isn't a team in the conference that wouldn't have Martinez starting at QB if he were on their roster, yet he's routinely listed as the 3rd best QB in the B1G.
I agree. Have you ever noticed how player rankings are elevated when offered by top schools? A 3 star recruit suddenly becomes a 4 star when offered by several top ranked schools. Did the player get better or was the rating influenced simply because they were offered by schools like Bama and Clemson?

I believe the same thing happens when playing for a big time program.......... Would anyone want to trade AM for Shea Patterson? I think not yet Patterson is rated higher then AM and much of it is because he plays for Michigan imo..........
 

Huskerthom

All Big 10
5 Year Member
I agree. Have you ever noticed how player rankings are elevated when offered by top schools? A 3 star recruit suddenly becomes a 4 star when offered by several top ranked schools. Did the player get better or was the rating influenced simply because they were offered by schools like Bama and Clemson?

I believe the same thing happens when playing for a big time program.......... Would anyone want to trade AM for Shea Patterson? I think not yet Patterson is rated higher then AM and much of it is because he plays for Michigan imo..........
This is primarily true because when those schools offer the services say. Ooh we must have missed something.
 

ShortSideOption

All American
10 Year Member
So, if Nebraska finishes 6-6, and Ohio State finishes 12-0, you don't think that that would affect all-conference voting for Fields vs Martinez? Substitute Michigan and Shea Patterson if you like. There isn't a team in the conference that wouldn't have Martinez starting at QB if he were on their roster, yet he's routinely listed as the 3rd best QB in the B1G.
I don't know what that has to do with NFL draft picks and all-conference?

Let's take your Ohio State comparison. Do you really think Martinez should have been all-conference over Haskins?

Haskins: 4,831 passing yards, 70% completion percentage, 50 Passing TDs, 8 INTs
108 rushing yards, 4 TDs

Martinez: 2,617 passing yards, 64% completion percentage, 17 TDs, 8 INTs
629 rushing yards, 8 TDs

I mean... that's not even close before we even talk records.

Patterson sucks. Luckily the media got it right and didn't vote him all-conference.

Let's not act like the reason we didn't have NFL draft picks and all-conference selections is because we were 4-8 and not 8-4. Most of our guys that got chances with NFL rosters are already cut.
 
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ShortSideOption

All American
10 Year Member
I agree. Have you ever noticed how player rankings are elevated when offered by top schools? A 3 star recruit suddenly becomes a 4 star when offered by several top ranked schools. Did the player get better or was the rating influenced simply because they were offered by schools like Bama and Clemson?

I believe the same thing happens when playing for a big time program.......... Would anyone want to trade AM for Shea Patterson? I think not yet Patterson is rated higher then AM and much of it is because he plays for Michigan imo..........
Player rankings get inflated due to who they go to, absolutely. Different than all-conference selections and NFL draft picks. NFL just cares whether you are good or not.
 

Huskerthom

All Big 10
5 Year Member
Player rankings get inflated due to who they go to, absolutely. Different than all-conference selections and NFL draft picks. NFL just cares whether you are good or not.
Don't get me wrong. I do not think this is something the NFL does on purpose. I just do not think they spend the time watching the film from the losing teams as much as the winning teams. They may catch a kid playing against a winning team who stands out. Other than that they probably watch a couple games from those teams and move on.
 

ShortSideOption

All American
10 Year Member
Don't get me wrong. I do not think this is something the NFL does on purpose. I just do not think they spend the time watching the film from the losing teams as much as the winning teams. They may catch a kid playing against a winning team who stands out. Other than that they probably watch a couple games from those teams and move on.
Probably true. Alabama has all 32 NFL teams that come thru their practices and pro day, sometimes Nebraska struggled to get 20.
 
I don't know what that has to do with NFL draft picks and all-conference?
I'm specifically giving an example of how winning affects all-conference voting. The draft is a separate thing, but I gave an example of that above with Alabama RBs above.

Do you really think Martinez should have been all-conference over Haskins?
No, I wasn't saying that, which is precisely why I was using this year's preseason all-conference predictions, which have consistently ranked Patterson above Martinez, often rank Fields above Martinez, and sometimes even rank Stanley above or equal to Martinez.

Patterson sucks. Luckily the media got it right and didn't vote him all-conference.
Yet! If Michigan goes undefeated and wins the B1G, he will be 1st or 2nd team. You can argue that that's because he would have to have a great year for Michigan to have a great year, but the reality is that he's playing with better personnel, and so they should win more. This is exactly the sort of scenario that happens often that led to this whole conversation.

If you want to go back to last year's picks, how about Michael Jordan from Ohio State? For the record, he was/is a fantastic offensive lineman ... but a mediocre center. He was built to be an OT, but they needed a Center, so they moved an all-American caliber OT (or Guard, if you prefer) to Center, and he just wasn't very much above mediocre there. He was still named all-conference though, even all-American. Why? Because he was highly touted and honored from the year before, and he played for Ohio State. The Center from Wisconsin actually had a better year, but Wisconsin was down, they already had 3 other O-linemen who were vacuuming up awards, so ... Michael Jordan it is.

Let's not act like the reason we didn't have NFL draft picks and all-conference selections is because we were 4-8 and not 8-4.
I never said that, but it's reasonable to say that Ozigbo gets drafted if he played for Alabama.

Most of our guys that got chances with NFL rosters are already cut.
Fair point, but it's also often a self-fulfilling prophecy. If an undrafted free agent and your 1st round draft pick are neck in neck coming out of summer camp, who gets cut? Everybody likes to talk about how objective the NFL is in their evaluations, but the evaluators are still human, and humans don't like to admit to being wrong. If a GM sees an UFA is clearly better than his draft pick, he'll probably keep both; if they're even, bye-bye UFA.
 
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