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Central Florida Draft Picks Year 2

AzHusker

All Big 10
10 Year Member
BTW, ZERO 4 Star recruits in any of those years. Coaching (our staff) is what made that team good. They changed the culture and developed the players. Our 'cupboard' is nowhere near as bare as UCF's was when Scott came in...

Year Nat'l Rank
2012 96
2013 79
2014 68
2015 71
I’m sure reality is somewhere in between your point of view and others in this thread. We tend to choose extremes to make our points.

I have just two comments to add to your post. First, you can’t make a silk purse out of a sows ear. Frost and crew clearly had decent talent to mold over a two year period. Second, the star ratings include a great deal of subjectivity. A talented recruit going to a mediocre (or worse) program ends up a two or three star guy. That very same recruit who goes to a top ten team is a 3-4-5 star guy. He simply attracts more attention and the ratings reflect them.

My :Sign2cents:
 

wcbsas

All Big 10
15 Year Member
It is not 1-1 but there is an indirect correlation. There are only so many scouts. So logically they spend more time on the teams with winning records. If there is a special player like a Lavonte David or a Suh that has crazy stats they will of course get noticed from highlight films. However as a general rule winning teams get more players drafted because they get watched by more eyes.
Of course there is a correlation … do more players get drafted from Alabama because the team is successful or is the team successful because they've got more good players? I get that.

But I would argue that in today's NFL there are fewer and fewer "misses" from a draft perspective. The NFL knows who the top 250 or so eligible players are … these kids these days are analyzed so closely and so finitely that there are few misses. Stanley Morgan and Devine Ozigbo were not passed over because NU had a losing record. They were passed over because there were (in the eyes of the NFL) better players or greater needs elsewhere.

Kids are getting drafted from SE Missouri State, Tarleton University and South Dakota State … 2 decades ago that did not happen as frequently. I would bet my paycheck that Morgan and Ozigbo were thoroughly vetted by all 32 NFL teams.

I think the general rule is winning teams get more players drafted not because they're watched more but because those winning teams have more NFL caliber players.
 
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Huskerthom

All Big 10
5 Year Member
Of course there is a correlation … do more players get drafted from Alabama because the team is successful or is the team successful because they've got more good players? I get that.

But I would argue that in today's NFL there are fewer and fewer "misses" from a draft perspective. The NFL knows who the top 250 or so eligible players are … these kids these days are analyzed so closely and so finitely that there are few misses. Stanley Morgan and Devine Ozigbo were not passed over because NU had a losing record. They were passed over because there were (in the eyes of the NFL) better players or greater needs elsewhere.

Kids are getting drafted from SE Missouri State, Tarleton University and South Dakota State … 2 decades ago that did not happen as frequently. I would bet my paycheck that Morgan and Ozigbo were thoroughly vetted by all 32 NFL teams.

I think the general rule is winning teams get more players drafted not because they're watched more but because those winning teams have more NFL caliber players.
Never has their been a statement on here that was so wrong.
QB

Steve McNair- Alcorn State (drafted 3rd overall, 1 SB appearance)

Joe Flacco- Delaware (drafted 18th overall, 1 SB)

Rich Gannon- Delaware (1 SB appearance, 1 MVP)

Tony Romo- Eastern Illinois (horrible, two broken collarbones)

Kurt Warner- Northern Iowa (3 SB appearances, 1 SB)

Phil Simms- Morehead State (drafted 7th overall, 2 SBs)

Doug Williams- Grambling State (drafted 17th overall, 1 SB)

Ron Jaworski- Youngstown State (1 SB appearance)


HB

Walter Payton- Jackson State (greatest RB of all-time, IMO)

Wilbert Montgomery- Abilene Christian

Brian Westbrook- Villanova

David Johnson- Northern Iowa (future fantasy football 1st/2nd rd pick)



WR

Jerry Rice- Mississippi Valley State (greatest WR of all-time, IMO)

Terrell Owens- Chattanooga

Harold Carmichael- Southern University

Marques Colston- Hofstra

Vincent Jackson- Northern Colorado

Victor Cruz- UMass



TE

Julius Thomas- Portland State

Eric Green- Liberty University



OL

Jahri Evans- Bloomsburg University (Actually D2 and not FCS)

Jermon Bushrod- Towson (2x probowler)



DL

Robert Mathis- Alabama A&M

Jared Allen- Idaho State

Howie Long- Villanova



LB

London Fletcher- John Carroll University

Jeremiah Trotter- Stephen F. Austin University



DB

Justin Bethel- Presbyterian University

Cortland Finnegan- Samford

Antoine Bethea- (3x probowler)

Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie- Tennessee State



K

Adam Vinatieri- South Dakota State

Dan Carpenter- University of Montana
 

HuskerNash

Recruit
2 Year Member
Never has their been a statement on here that was so wrong.
QB

Steve McNair- Alcorn State (drafted 3rd overall, 1 SB appearance)

Joe Flacco- Delaware (drafted 18th overall, 1 SB)

Rich Gannon- Delaware (1 SB appearance, 1 MVP)

Tony Romo- Eastern Illinois (horrible, two broken collarbones)

Kurt Warner- Northern Iowa (3 SB appearances, 1 SB)

Phil Simms- Morehead State (drafted 7th overall, 2 SBs)

Doug Williams- Grambling State (drafted 17th overall, 1 SB)

Ron Jaworski- Youngstown State (1 SB appearance)


HB

Walter Payton- Jackson State (greatest RB of all-time, IMO)

Wilbert Montgomery- Abilene Christian

Brian Westbrook- Villanova

David Johnson- Northern Iowa (future fantasy football 1st/2nd rd pick)



WR

Jerry Rice- Mississippi Valley State (greatest WR of all-time, IMO)

Terrell Owens- Chattanooga

Harold Carmichael- Southern University

Marques Colston- Hofstra

Vincent Jackson- Northern Colorado

Victor Cruz- UMass



TE

Julius Thomas- Portland State

Eric Green- Liberty University



OL

Jahri Evans- Bloomsburg University (Actually D2 and not FCS)

Jermon Bushrod- Towson (2x probowler)



DL

Robert Mathis- Alabama A&M

Jared Allen- Idaho State

Howie Long- Villanova



LB

London Fletcher- John Carroll University

Jeremiah Trotter- Stephen F. Austin University



DB

Justin Bethel- Presbyterian University

Cortland Finnegan- Samford

Antoine Bethea- (3x probowler)

Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie- Tennessee State



K

Adam Vinatieri- South Dakota State

Dan Carpenter- University of Montana
For the life of me I don’t understand how these examples makes your theory anymore right or wrong than his. The experts are never going to get it 100% right and I see that you’ve pulled a few names over 25+ years up drafting college kids. For the record I’ll buy what wcbsas is selling. There is way too much money involved in the NFL to buy the theory that there is a plethora of All Pro talent running around unnoticed due to their won/loss record.
 

Husker Mort

Heisman
5 Year Member
Why is 0-12 still the prevailing talking point with UCF? We are talking about the largest university in one of the most talent rich states in the union that was just a few years removed from a nearly perfect season and a BCS bowl. Of course there was talent on that roster.

What Frost did there was impressive, but it wasn't like he was showing up in Manhattan, Kansas ca. 1988.
 

ShortSideOption

All American
10 Year Member
I think we're in a position this year of having far greater depth than UCF had but lacking the top end talent, if that makes sense. I'm not sure some of our starters are quite where some of the guys they had drafted were but I also don't think there's as big of a drop off to our 2nd and 3rd string.

I'm mostly just interested in seeing how we respond with 2 years in the same offensive and defensive systems. That's basically an anomaly around these parts
Good post. To your point, am I mad we have the Davis twins, Stille, Barry, Ferguson, etc.? No. Even though they may not get drafted, our depth is pretty good everywhere except NG and OLB on defense. Offensively, center, WR, and RB are a little concerning but I feel WR and RB will work themselves out just by the offense we run.
 

AzHusker

All Big 10
10 Year Member
Why is 0-12 still the prevailing talking point with UCF? We are talking about the largest university in one of the most talent rich states in the union that was just a few years removed from a nearly perfect season and a BCS bowl. Of course there was talent on that roster.

What Frost did there was impressive, but it wasn't like he was showing up in Manhattan, Kansas ca. 1988.
It makes a catchy story, and a memorable one. I don’t remember how many times a team has gone from 0-12 to 13-0 in D1 football, but it can’t have been very many times. It’s a made-for-headlines story. I think that’s why it will be a talking point for awhile.

There’s a reason Scott hired several coaches on his staff from the state of Florida when he took the UCF job. Good men, sure, but also good talent evaluators with local knowledge who knew there were some unpolished diamonds on that UCF roster.

Also, in an organization I used to work, we had a saying - it’s not how good you are, it’s who you succeed that determines how you are perceived in your new job. You follow a star, you’ll look like a bum, and vice versa. Solich learned that at Nebraska. It happens all over. Scott knew that too, and we saw how UCF worked out for him.
 
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ShortSideOption

All American
10 Year Member
I keep hearing that O'leary left Frost with some fantastic athletes and recruits to work with. I just don't agree with that. If you look at the 4 years of UCF recruiting below prior to Frosts arrival (Via 247), it certainly is not good recruiting. BTW, ZERO 4 Star recruits in any of those years. Coaching (our staff) is what made that team good. They changed the culture and developed the players. Our 'cupboard' is nowhere near as bare as UCF's was when Scott came in...

Year Nat'l Rank
2012 96
2013 79
2014 68
2015 71
Careful with those numbers.... here is the amount of signees 247 lists for those years:

2012 - 14
2013 - 19
2014 - 16
2015 - 18

Further... when Frost got there, despite their average recruiting ranking those four years being 79, their team talent ranking was 69th. Their undefeated year it was 55th, better than Indiana, Minnesota, Illinois, and Purdue. I think this further shows they did a good job hitting those JUCO and transfer ranks.

With Held, Frost is doing a great job pulling in guys like Daniels and other players to help bolster the talent in a hurry. But it comes back to the chicken and the egg. Go look at the Griffins who were drafted, they were awful recruits from a ranking standpoint.
 

ShortSideOption

All American
10 Year Member
Why is 0-12 still the prevailing talking point with UCF? We are talking about the largest university in one of the most talent rich states in the union that was just a few years removed from a nearly perfect season and a BCS bowl. Of course there was talent on that roster.

What Frost did there was impressive, but it wasn't like he was showing up in Manhattan, Kansas ca. 1988.
I'd agree. I think O'Leary lost the team, and Frost showed the talent the way. I think Frost had a perfect storm (which is why he chose Orlando). The talent wasn't as bad as zero losses, probably was closer to what they did his first year and .500. His coaching, recruiting, and Duval took them to 13-0. It really couldn't have worked out any better from a perception standpoint.
 

Huskerthom

All Big 10
5 Year Member
For the life of me I don’t understand how these examples makes your theory anymore right or wrong than his. The experts are never going to get it 100% right and I see that you’ve pulled a few names over 25+ years up drafting college kids. For the record I’ll buy what wcbsas is selling. There is way too much money involved in the NFL to buy the theory that there is a plethora of All Pro talent running around unnoticed due to their won/loss record.
His point was that they are finding guys in smaller schools more then they used to 20 years ago. Most of those guys were discovered more than 20 years ago.
 

HuskerNash

Recruit
2 Year Member
He didn’t say that players were not found in smaller schools years ago but more are found today. I guess neither of you have provided evidence that that is or isn’t true. What I don’t agree with is the notion that higher profile teams are getting guys drafted because of more eyes on them. If you are a draft worthy player the NFL is going to find you. For years the huskers were one of the best things going and didn’t always dominate draft day. You have to look at talent, fit, and system. No way where his comments as wrong as you alluded to.
 

Huskerthom

All Big 10
5 Year Member
He didn’t say that players were not found in smaller schools years ago but more are found today. I guess neither of you have provided evidence that that is or isn’t true. What I don’t agree with is the notion that higher profile teams are getting guys drafted because of more eyes on them. If you are a draft worthy player the NFL is going to find you. For years the huskers were one of the best things going and didn’t always dominate draft day. You have to look at talent, fit, and system. No way where his comments as wrong as you alluded to.
We may not have put QBs and WR in the NFL. However during those years we had a ton of OL, DL, RB, TE, LB, K, PT, DBs drafted and in many cases drafted very high. If you do not know that then you were not paying attention.
 

wcbsas

All Big 10
15 Year Member
Never has their been a statement on here that was so wrong.
QB

Steve McNair- Alcorn State (drafted 3rd overall, 1 SB appearance)

Joe Flacco- Delaware (drafted 18th overall, 1 SB)

Rich Gannon- Delaware (1 SB appearance, 1 MVP)

Tony Romo- Eastern Illinois (horrible, two broken collarbones)

Kurt Warner- Northern Iowa (3 SB appearances, 1 SB)

Phil Simms- Morehead State (drafted 7th overall, 2 SBs)

Doug Williams- Grambling State (drafted 17th overall, 1 SB)

Ron Jaworski- Youngstown State (1 SB appearance)


HB

Walter Payton- Jackson State (greatest RB of all-time, IMO)

Wilbert Montgomery- Abilene Christian

Brian Westbrook- Villanova

David Johnson- Northern Iowa (future fantasy football 1st/2nd rd pick)



WR

Jerry Rice- Mississippi Valley State (greatest WR of all-time, IMO)

Terrell Owens- Chattanooga

Harold Carmichael- Southern University

Marques Colston- Hofstra

Vincent Jackson- Northern Colorado

Victor Cruz- UMass



TE

Julius Thomas- Portland State

Eric Green- Liberty University



OL

Jahri Evans- Bloomsburg University (Actually D2 and not FCS)

Jermon Bushrod- Towson (2x probowler)



DL

Robert Mathis- Alabama A&M

Jared Allen- Idaho State

Howie Long- Villanova



LB

London Fletcher- John Carroll University

Jeremiah Trotter- Stephen F. Austin University



DB

Justin Bethel- Presbyterian University

Cortland Finnegan- Samford

Antoine Bethea- (3x probowler)

Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie- Tennessee State



K

Adam Vinatieri- South Dakota State

Dan Carpenter- University of Montana
Not the context of my post whatsoever. You are picking at nits because you are trying to be contrarian.

IMO … NU did not go "draft-less" because we had a losing record. We went "draftless" because we did not have good enough players to get drafted.

The college football game is well scouted by the NFL today … much moreso than it ever was …. to list 2 dozen small school athletes that were drafted/played in the NFL does NOTHING to refute or support that position.
 
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wcbsas

All Big 10
15 Year Member
His point was that they are finding guys in smaller schools more then they used to 20 years ago. Most of those guys were discovered more than 20 years ago.
No not my point AT ALL … please re-read. My point is the NFL scouting system is much more involved and much more elaborate and much more detailed. AND THAT the assertion that NU had a losing record and therefore that affected why we did not have anyone drafted is wrong. Go ahead and google a list of top small school draftees and list them as you see fit not pertinent to this discussion.
 
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