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Brenda Tracy

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I'm sorry, call me old fashioned, but I thought we had a legal system to sort out these types of things. I have a hard time ruining lives over allegations that are not prosecuted for whatever reason. I understand that the legal system is slow and people get frustrated, but it works as well as anywhere in the world, in my opinion. If a kid is guilty of such a crime, the last thing he needs to be worried about is whether hes playing football, he should be heading to prison. If he's innocent, why should he miss any time at all?
 
You are correct about this case. However, for every one instance like the one you quote, there are hundreds (low estimate) that don't get reported because fear of blowback. I think we have to get to the point where the ones who do not report don't feel afraid, then we can worry about the one off case like Duke Lacrosse - that's a luxury we have to earn.
I think there are two separate issues here. Encouraging reporting shouldn't have to affect the defendants immediately. We are slowly crossing the line of innocent until proven guilty to …..let's fire/suspend someone because they were accused.
 
I think there are two separate issues here. Encouraging reporting shouldn't have to affect the defendants immediately. We are slowly crossing the line of innocent until proven guilty to …..let's fire/suspend someone because they were accused.
That line was crossed years ago. For the longest time, players and coaches could do no wrong, and problems were routinely buried/covered up. Now the pendulum has swung too far the other way. If there are allegations of inappropriate sexual and/or physical conduct, it is almost mandatory that the accused be removed from campus pending investigation. Schools are afraid that is they don't take action and another incident occurs, they will be held liable for enabling a hostile environment.

Hopefully it won't be too long before the pendulum moves back just a little, and saner heads will prevail. Give the accuser their day in court, but may sure the accused gets their day as well.

edit for typo
 
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I'm sorry, call me old fashioned, but I thought we had a legal system to sort out these types of things. I have a hard time ruining lives over allegations that are not prosecuted for whatever reason. I understand that the legal system is slow and people get frustrated, but it works as well as anywhere in the world, in my opinion. If a kid is guilty of such a crime, the last thing he needs to be worried about is whether hes playing football, he should be heading to prison. If he's innocent, why should he miss any time at all?
Exactly. Had Urban reported as he was required to do they would have reported that and he would never have been put on leave.
 
I think there are two separate issues here. Encouraging reporting shouldn't have to affect the defendants immediately. We are slowly crossing the line of innocent until proven guilty to …..let's fire/suspend someone because they were accused.
We definitely are, but it’s such a fine line. If you suspend/fire/kick off the team after an accusation you could end up with Duke Lacrosse. At the same time, can you afford to allow a possible assaulter or rapist to be a part of the team? For coaches, I think you suspend on accusations pending charges. Pay them, but Zach Smith probably shouldn’t have been recruiting and leading 18 year old boys. For students, it’s much tougher as the legal process takes a while to iron out and this could be their livelihood, whether via pro sports or paying for their degree.

I don’t know, some Dbag was using the MeToo thing to support urban Meyer so this is probably way above my pay grade.
 
That line was crossed years ago. For the longest time, players and coaches could do no wrong, and problems were routinely buried/covered up. Now the pendulum has swung too far the other way. If there are allegations of inappropriate sexual and/or physical conduct, it is almost mandatory that the accused be removed from campus pending investigation. Schools are afraid that is they don't take action and another incident occurs, they will be held liable for enabling a hostile environment.

Hopefully it won't be too long before the pendulum moves back just a little, and saner heads will prevail. Give the accuser their day in court, but may sure the accused gets their day as well.

edit for typo
I’m guessing the majority of us on this thread are men and not women. The old days of “no” means “yes” and “It was a misunderstanding” are over. My wife was beaten by a guy she was dating a couple years before we met. It only happened once. She did what she was supposed to do, she got away, called the police and made a report. She had some bruising on her arms and legs, it was documented and that was basically it. The county attorney did not pursue charges. When I met my wife a few years later she told me about it and I was really angry that someone would hurt my wife several years before I met her. I believe she knew after awhile that I would never hit her and she was safe when with me. It took what felt like years for her to trust me. We’ve made a beautiful life together, we have 2 awesome kids, traveled the world together and call each other several times a day just to chit chat and hear each other’s voice. 25 years later when we have a heated discussion or argument, if i happen to swing my arms a certain way or make too sudden a movement she will flinch. We’ve been together for a quarter century, I’ve never given her a reason to think I would ever lay a hand on her yet she is still afraid. My point is this, one bad man can ruin a women’s trust for life and women very very ever lie about a man abusing or raping them. Has that happened? yes. Is it common? NO. Do women deserve the benefit of the doubt? YES. So yes, I support a man being suspended from their job or school until allegations are investigated and charges are pursued. If 1 man out of 10,000 are inconvenienced by this, that is fair. That 1 man has the legal options to pursue compensation. The 9,999 women do not.
 
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We definitely are, but it’s such a fine line. If you suspend/fire/kick off the team after an accusation you could end up with Duke Lacrosse. At the same time, can you afford to allow a possible assaulter or rapist to be a part of the team? For coaches, I think you suspend on accusations pending charges. Pay them, but Zach Smith probably shouldn’t have been recruiting and leading 18 year old boys. For students, it’s much tougher as the legal process takes a while to iron out and this could be their livelihood, whether via pro sports or paying for their degree.

I don’t know, some Dbag was using the MeToo thing to support urban Meyer so this is probably way above my pay grade.
My concern is where will this stop. If we are at the point where any little thing gets you fired what is next? Is my favorite coach.....Scott Frost next? Nebraska? I mean we dodged a bullet on Keith Williams. What would have happened if his car accident while drunk driving had killed someone. Knowing he had 2 DUI's and operating in a University provided car while doing University Business. Why was he hired to do a job where he would need to drive? And then we let him keep his job after doing it?

What if an issue arises around Ron Brown (one of my favorite coaches) where some sort of religious harassment suit is filed? Do we have to fire Scott Frost because he was aware of the risk when he hired him?

When Z smith was hired at Ohio State there was less proof of any wrong doing then there was on the two issues I discussed above. I'm sorry if I'm having a hard time with society continuing to raise the bar on individuals not directly involved in the crime.
 



My concern is where will this stop. If we are at the point where any little thing gets you fired what is next? Is my favorite coach.....Scott Frost next? Nebraska? I mean we dodged a bullet on Keith Williams. What would have happened if his car accident while drunk driving had killed someone. Knowing he had 2 DUI's and operating in a University provided car while doing University Business. Why was he hired to do a job where he would need to drive? And then we let him keep his job after doing it?

What if an issue arises around Ron Brown (one of my favorite coaches) where some sort of religious harassment suit is filed? Do we have to fire Scott Frost because he was aware of the risk when he hired him?

When Z smith was hired at Ohio State there was less proof of any wrong doing then there was on the two issues I discussed above. I'm sorry if I'm having a hard time with society continuing to raise the bar on individuals not directly involved in the crime.
there is a huge difference between dui’s, religion and beating women
 
I’m guessing the majority of us on this thread are men and not women. The old days of “no” means “yes” and “It was a misunderstanding” are over. My wife was beaten by a guy she was dating a couple years before we met. It only happened once. She did what she was supposed to do, she got away, called the police and made a report. She had some bruising on her arms and legs, it was documented and that was basically it. The county attorney did not pursue charges. When I met my wife a few years later she told me about it and I was really angry that someone would hurt my wife several years before I met her. I believe she knew after awhile that I would never hit her and she was safe when with me. It took what felt like years for her to trust me. We’ve made a beautiful life together, we have 2 awesome kids, traveled the world together and call each other several times a day just to chit chat and hear each other’s voice. 25 years later when we have a heated discussion or argument, if i happen to swing my arms a certain way or make too sudden a movement she will flinch. We’ve been together for a quarter century, I’ve never given her a reason to think I would ever lay a hand on her yet she is still afraid. My point is this, one bad man can ruin a women’s trust for life and women very very ever lie about a man abusing or raping them. Has that happened? yes. Is it common? NO. Do women deserve the benefit of the doubt? YES. So yes, I support a man being suspended from their job or school until allegations are investigated and charges are pursued. If 1 man out of 10,000 are inconvenienced by this, that is fair. That 1 man has the legal options to pursue compensation. The 9,999 women do not.
I certainly respect your position. And sorry she had to go through that. However I don't agree with the 1 in 10,000 dialog of false accusations. I spent about 20 years as a firefighter responding to domestic abuse. I can tell you woman are just as aggressive towards their spouses. Physically they are at a disadvantage though and are often the victim because they can't fight back or fear the husband due to knowing he is much stronger. My biggest concern on this topic is the other victims being drawn into this such as UM, UM's wife, the AD and the University.
 
there is a huge difference between dui’s, religion and beating women
I'm not sure on the DUI's and beating women. There are a lot of dead victims of DUI drivers. Religion yes. But my point is this insistence by society to manifest things into a blame someone else is growing and the Religion thing could get there some day.
 
My concern is where will this stop. If we are at the point where any little thing gets you fired what is next? Is my favorite coach.....Scott Frost next? Nebraska? I mean we dodged a bullet on Keith Williams. What would have happened if his car accident while drunk driving had killed someone. Knowing he had 2 DUI's and operating in a University provided car while doing University Business. Why was he hired to do a job where he would need to drive? And then we let him keep his job after doing it?

What if an issue arises around Ron Brown (one of my favorite coaches) where some sort of religious harassment suit is filed? Do we have to fire Scott Frost because he was aware of the risk when he hired him?

When Z smith was hired at Ohio State there was less proof of any wrong doing then there was on the two issues I discussed above. I'm sorry if I'm having a hard time with society continuing to raise the bar on individuals not directly involved in the crime.

Hville, please don't take this the wrong way - but I think the best thing you can do is sit down with one (or two) of the beverages in your avatar and give it a rest. You'll find a perspective eventually that you can live with that does not involve changing the momentum of societal change by yourself. It is going to happen with us or without us, might as well enjoy life.
 



Hville, please don't take this the wrong way - but I think the best thing you can do is sit down with one (or two) of the beverages in your avatar and give it a rest. You'll find a perspective eventually that you can live with that does not involve changing the momentum of societal change by yourself. It is going to happen with us or without us, might as well enjoy life.
good advice. I'm done.
 
I certainly respect your position. And sorry she had to go through that. However I don't agree with the 1 in 10,000 dialog of false accusations. I spent about 20 years as a firefighter responding to domestic abuse. I can tell you woman are just as aggressive towards their spouses. Physically they are at a disadvantage though and are often the victim because they can't fight back or fear the husband due to knowing he is much stronger. My biggest concern on this topic is the other victims being drawn into this such as UM, UM's wife, the AD and the University.
If UM and his wife reported this up the chain as they claim then technically they did what is required of them. Let’s not forget in 2009 that Urb sent his lawyer with Smith’s grandpa to talk Smith’s wife out of pressing charges. That fact alone tells me Urb should not be in the job he is

I’m response to your statement about your experiences as a firefighter, I have no doubt about what you stated, I also believe it is much easier for those women to be more aggressive once a third party was there and they were no longer in fear of being beaten. My 1 out of 10,000 was surely pulling numbers out of thin air, having listened to the stories my multiple family members, including my own father, who have worked in law enforcement the abused women are usually telling the truth
 

Franklin got off pretty easy when it was revealed that a girl he used to help entertain recruits at Vanderbilt was raped by some players. He admitted he asked her to welcome recruits and find other coeds to also meet and greet recruits. During his conversation with her he said other schools do the same and it's nothing new. This surfaced just after he took the Penn State job.
Brenda Tracey's interview is a real eye opener. She still gets harassed on social media. She's working hard to change things that need to be changed. It takes a lot of courage to do what she's doing I have a great deal of respect for her. I plan to use her interview in my Freshman Seminar class this fall.
 
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