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2020 Juco PF Lat Mayen Is 'N'

Skerfan

Recruit
It was the ‘exception’ here for the last 50+ years. How did that work out
as far as NCAA wins goes?

Fred’s system works, his coaching works, his roster management works in a town not too distant, nor dissimilar, from Lincoln, except of course when it comes to historical basketball success.


Lament all you want...Royce White, Nader, McKay, Clyburn, Kane. A LOT of talent went through Ames in a short time...along with a lot of success that Nebraska has only dreamed about.
You can tell me how great it works over and over again and I will tell you that for me that won't matter, I still won't enjoy watching it as much. College sports is supposed to be about taking student athletes with very strong athletic skill and using the process to better them as human beings and provide entertainment as well. I don't want a team with a majority of them being kids that screwed up high school so they had to go to some institution like Last Chance U to get a joke of a degree to make them eligible to play here for 1 or 2 years. I also don't want a bunch of kids that transferred because they weren't good enough or got in trouble somewhere else. Using these transfers to plug holes or to rebuild a roster in an emergency like last year is one thing. Making this the standard way of doing business will make me personally less of a fan.
 

LarstheRed

Travel Squad
5 Year Member
I dont know fellas, I really wish we would recruit some high school kids. If this turns into the Kansas State version of college basketball I don't think I will be all that excited.
This is a fine mentality if we are of the opinion we can either recruit some really good talent out of high school (one or two and done), or if we think by some miracle the players we get will actually be patient and develop. The really good talent tends to leave early in the belief they are destined to play in the NBA. The idea of being patient was fine...20 years ago, but apparently with kids changing schools like Red Don changes socks, it's a real struggle. Look at this kid (Lat) for instance; starts off for 2 years at TCU, gets frustrated, heads for JUCO, then thinks he's found greener pastures in Lincoln. Is this someone we wouldn't have considered out of high school? Grades weren't a problem, but he was a little raw, but talented and needed to be patient...so how'd that work out? Think of how Samari Curtis wouldn't even finish out the year before leaving the program, and one of the guys in front of him is graduating, and I'd suggest neither of the two remaining are as good of shooters, but he still jumped ship.

The system is very different now, and so many of these kids never had to sit behind anyone on the teams they played on. It's a new experience, and many can't deal with it.
 

LarstheRed

Travel Squad
5 Year Member
You can tell me how great it works over and over again and I will tell you that for me that won't matter, I still won't enjoy watching it as much. College sports is supposed to be about taking student athletes with very strong athletic skill and using the process to better them as human beings and provide entertainment as well. I don't want a team with a majority of them being kids that screwed up high school so they had to go to some institution like Last Chance U to get a joke of a degree to make them eligible to play here for 1 or 2 years. I also don't want a bunch of kids that transferred because they weren't good enough or got in trouble somewhere else. Using these transfers to plug holes or to rebuild a roster in an emergency like last year is one thing. Making this the standard way of doing business will make me personally less of a fan.
Just as a test, name your favorite high schoolers who have played for Nebraska over the last 10 years.
 

Skerfan

Recruit
Just as a test, name your favorite high schoolers who have played for Nebraska over the last 10 years.
Tai Webster, Thor, Roby, Watson, and Shields. To make your point for you it hasnt been all that many. It was also fun watching Trueblood and Borchardt fight so hard in the tournament last year but that isnt going to win you many games. Benny Parker was here and fun to watch too but not the guy you need to compete in the Big 10.

To make my point how many of these transfers have come in here and left with a great reputation as selfless team players that truly loved playing basketball at the University of Nebraska? Pettaway? Palmer? Andrew White who transferred here then left again and transferred somewhere else? Walter Pitchford who transferred here and then just quit basketball? Give me 12 guys that come here and leave with a Husker tattoo and actually know the fight song rather then the hired guns.
 

Red Don

Tiger
Staff member
5 Year Member
Rats!! Outed!!! I was hoping no one would notice my 'Stinky' Socks! :Lol:

Tai Webster, Thor, Roby, Watson, and Shields. To make your point for you it hasn't been all that many. It was also fun watching Trueblood and Borchardt fight so hard in the tournament last year but that isn't going to win you many games. Benny Parker was here and fun to watch too but not the guy you need to compete in the Big 10.
Great Stories, ALL! Guys who came in as Freshmen, playing their college careers, and were all 'Nebraska' through and through, endearing themselves to the fans and earning everyone's respect for their tenacity. Who can forget the season ending game against Iowa last season, and the first game in the Big Ten Tournament. We had what, only about six or so scholarship players available for those games, and Won 'em Both! They really stepped up to the plate when their names were called!

But, that is what you are left with to celebrate when its done. Not to denigrate the players, or their memories, there are some fans that thirst for that First NCAA Win :Redface:. Merle, for one! He was hoping to live long enough to witness the Huskers getting that elusive 1st NCAA Tournament Win; Sadly, twas not to be (but I have no doubt he'll be watching down when it happens). That is Also one of the reasons you pPay the Game; to Compete!

For the first time I can remember we have a Head Coach who has a good chance of getting it Done. I wouldn't want to hobble his prospects by arbirtarily limiting his options.
 

Skerfan

Recruit
Rats!! Outed!!! I was hoping no one would notice my 'Stinky' Socks! :Lol:



Great Stories, ALL! Guys who came in as Freshmen, playing their college careers, and were all 'Nebraska' through and through, endearing themselves to the fans and earning everyone's respect for their tenacity. Who can forget the season ending game against Iowa last season, and the first game in the Big Ten Tournament. We had what, only about six or so scholarship players available for those games, and Won 'em Both! They really stepped up to the plate when their names were called!

But, that is what you are left with to celebrate when its done. Not to denigrate the players, or their memories, there are some fans that thirst for that First NCAA Win :Redface:. Merle, for one! He was hoping to live long enough to witness the Huskers getting that elusive 1st NCAA Tournament Win; Sadly, twas not to be (but I have no doubt he'll be watching down when it happens). That is Also one of the reasons you pPay the Game; to Compete!

For the first time I can remember we have a Head Coach who has a good chance of getting it Done. I wouldn't want to hobble his prospects by arbirtarily limiting his options.
I am not against using transfers and JUCOs as a tool, it just appears right now like that is all we are after and I do not like that at all. JUCO kids go to JUCO to get D1 scholarships. The reality is that while they are there winning doesn’t matter. The number one goal is to “get there’s” so they can go play D1 and when they get there that is usually the type of player they have become. I don’t want a team full of that.
 

LarstheRed

Travel Squad
5 Year Member
Tai Webster, Thor, Roby, Watson, and Shields. To make your point for you it hasnt been all that many. It was also fun watching Trueblood and Borchardt fight so hard in the tournament last year but that isnt going to win you many games. Benny Parker was here and fun to watch too but not the guy you need to compete in the Big 10.

To make my point how many of these transfers have come in here and left with a great reputation as selfless team players that truly loved playing basketball at the University of Nebraska? Pettaway? Palmer? Andrew White who transferred here then left again and transferred somewhere else? Walter Pitchford who transferred here and then just quit basketball? Give me 12 guys that come here and leave with a Husker tattoo and actually know the fight song rather then the hired guns.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but Roby didn’t struggle with the idea of leaving, foregoing his senior year with the school who gave a very raw kid the opportunity to develop into an NBA player. 2 of the guys you mentioned as favorites were from overseas, which means they weren’t typical high schoolers, they were playing on international teams. Shields was a 500 mile, legacy player we likely don’t get without dad’s connection. Funny you down play those ‘mercenaries’, when by and large they were the best players on our rosters. Do we make the tournament without those transfers?

I don’t think most fans really understand how much transfer activity there has been over the last 30-40 years. Even at the small college level you will find a third of the roster is a revolving door. Heck, at Kearney in the 80s when they were the darlings of the state in basketball, they had guys coming from JUCO, transferring from several other schools, and yes, straight out of high school, and they built cohesive, successful teams.

There’s an old saying, ‘it’s not where you start, it’s where you finish’, well, if you ask those guys who spent 2 years at a Juco, or 2 years at TCU, and finished their careers at Nebraska who they played for, their will very likely say Nebraska. Just because a kid is willing to ride the pine for 4 years, spot playing on occasion, doesn’t make him an asset, or somehow special. I played with plenty of guys who were on the roster 4 years, bitching and moaning, playing little and only going through the motions at practice, but not hesitating to suck up that scholarship. I don’t give a crap where a guy comes from as long as he plays hard and is a decent teammate. The fans shouldn’t either.
 

Skerfan

Recruit
Correct me if I’m wrong, but Roby didn’t struggle with the idea of leaving, foregoing his senior year with the school who gave a very raw kid the opportunity to develop into an NBA player. 2 of the guys you mentioned as favorites were from overseas, which means they weren’t typical high schoolers, they were playing on international teams. Shields was a 500 mile, legacy player we likely don’t get without dad’s connection. Funny you down play those ‘mercenaries’, when by and large they were the best players on our rosters. Do we make the tournament without those transfers?

I don’t think most fans really understand how much transfer activity there has been over the last 30-40 years. Even at the small college level you will find a third of the roster is a revolving door. Heck, at Kearney in the 80s when they were the darlings of the state in basketball, they had guys coming from JUCO, transferring from several other schools, and yes, straight out of high school, and they built cohesive, successful teams.

There’s an old saying, ‘it’s not where you start, it’s where you finish’, well, if you ask those guys who spent 2 years at a Juco, or 2 years at TCU, and finished their careers at Nebraska who they played for, their will very likely say Nebraska. Just because a kid is willing to ride the pine for 4 years, spot playing on occasion, doesn’t make him an asset, or somehow special. I played with plenty of guys who were on the roster 4 years, bitching and moaning, playing little and only going through the motions at practice, but not hesitating to suck up that scholarship. I don’t give a crap where a guy comes from as long as he plays hard and is a decent teammate. The fans shouldn’t either.
Calling guys that spend 3-4 years here mercenaries is just ridiculous. People became emotionally attached to Tai Webster, Roby, and Thor. Do you really think the fans loved Petteway and Palmer? I am not the only fan that called them selfish and thought at times they hurt the team with the way they played. If you are telling me those guys came because they loved the University of Nebraska I will call BS on that. Some of my best friends are college D2 coaches so I hear straight from there mouths the issues with Juco's and transfers. My son also plays on a team that has a roster that 1/2 the team is Juco's. Its a different mindset whether you believe it or not. Of course there are exceptions but they are just that, exceptions. You are perfectly within your rights to not care where they came from but I do. The main point I have made is that I won't care for a team full of transfers as much as one mainly of 4 year kids and I stand by that. I also think that the way Kansas State football has been bad mouthed over the years on this board as being so JUCO heavy that a large part of Huskermax agrees.
 
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LarstheRed

Travel Squad
5 Year Member
Calling guys that spend 3-4 years here mercenaries is just ridiculous. People became emotionally attached to Tai Webster, Roby, and Thor. Do you really think the fans loved Petteway and Palmer? I am not the only fan that called them selfish and thought at times they hurt the team with the way they played. If you are telling me those guys came because they loved the University of Nebraska I will call BS on that. Some of my best friends are college D2 coaches so I hear straight from there mouths the issues with Juco's and transfers. My son also plays on a team that has a roster that 1/2 the team is Juco's. Its a different mindset whether you believe it or not. Of course there are exceptions but they are just that, exceptions. You are perfectly within your rights to not care where they came from but I do. The main point I have made is that I won't care for a team full of transfers as much as one mainly of 4 year kids and I stand by that. I also think that the way Kansas State football has been bad mouthed over the years on this board as being so JUCO heavy that a large part of Huskermax agrees.
Who called Thor, Roby or Webster mercinaries? I said your depiction of them being the classic 4 year players out of high school was a little bit of a reach, except for Roby, who left early. Seriously? Petteway was hugely popular his junior year when he got hot and took us to the promised land! Not popular with me, as I saw him as a very average player, but with most, he was THE man. And Palmer was as well, at least until he decided that averaging 20 points, but shooting about the same percentage from the field was OK.

And you are being completely disingenuous or simply naive if you suggest that the majority of any roster chooses a school because they 'love the thought of playing for them'. They love the thought of playing period, and while they may have some schools they prefer the idea of attending, it's a starry eyed few that dream of wearing the Scarlet and Cream if they are coveted D1 prospects. And trying to tie in what a football program does as a means to fill out it's roster of nearly 100 players, and what a basketball team does to fill out it's 15 is a ridiculous comparison. Do you know what it took to get us to the Tournament? 2 guys off the transfer heap. 2. Without them, we don't make the tourney, with them, we do. 1 or 2 really good players is all it takes in basketball to make the difference in being a tournament team, or a league also ran.

Is Teddy a mercinary? He didn't start his career dreaming of Big Red, is he somehow soiled now? What about Walker? I know we wanted him out of HS, but he went elsewhere, is he now damaged goods? What about all those players who used to be on our roster, and are now playing for another team, do you think they are pining away their days still dreaming of those happy days in Lincoln? If your only means of finding players you feel comfortable supporting is fielding a team of Eisleys and Piatkowskis, then you need to find something to do with your time, because that's not what we paid top dollar to attract Fred Hoiberg to do. Coach wants players who can do the things he wants, and he doesn't have the luxury of trying to coax in some high schoolers with potential, then hope they develop as planned, and possibly put a decent team on the floor in 4 years. We will get to a point we have more high schoolers coming up through the ranks, but Fred knows it's a far better option for him to continue pulling in kids who have shown they can play at the B1G level, and just need a better opportunity to show that ability.
 
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Skerfan

Recruit
Who called Thor, Roby or Webster mercinaries? I said your depiction of them being the classic 4 year players out of high school was a little bit of a reach, except for Roby, who left early. Seriously? Petteway was hugely popular his junior year when he got hot and took us to the promised land! Not popular with me, as I saw him as a very average player, but with most, he was THE man. And Palmer was as well, at least until he decided that averaging 20 points, but shooting about the same percentage from the field was OK.

And you are being completely disingenuous or simply naive if you suggest that the majority of any roster chooses a school because they 'love the thought of playing for them'. They love the thought of playing period, and while they may have some schools they prefer the idea of attending, it's a starry eyed few that dream of wearing the Scarlet and Cream if they are coveted D1 prospects. And trying to tie in what a football program does as a means to fill out it's roster of nearly 100 players, and what a basketball team does to fill out it's 15 is a ridiculous comparison. Do you know what it took to get us to the Tournament? 2 guys off the transfer heap. 2. Without them, we don't make the tourney, with them, we do. 1 or 2 really good players is all it takes in basketball to make the difference in being a tournament team, or a league also ran.

Is Teddy a mercinary? He didn't start his career dreaming of Big Red, is he somehow soiled now? What about Walker? I know we wanted him out of HS, but he went elsewhere, is he now damaged goods? What about all those players who used to be on our roster, and are now playing for another team, do you think they are pining away their days still dreaming of those happy days in Lincoln? If your only means of finding players you feel comfortable supporting is fielding a team of Eisleys and Piatkowskis, then you need to find something to do with your time, because that's not what we paid top dollar to attract Fred Hoiberg to do. Coach wants players who can do the things he wants, and he doesn't have the luxury of trying to coax in some high schoolers with potential, then hope they develop as planned, and possibly put a decent team on the floor in 4 years. We will get to a point we have more high schoolers coming up through the ranks, but Fred knows it's a far better option for him to continue pulling in kids who have shown they can play at the B1G level, and just need a better opportunity to show that ability.
Teddy? Seriously? 4th school in 3 years after coming from boys town then being kicked out of one college for domestic violence and other charges. Are you really going to ask me if he is soiled? If that is part of your argument then we can’t even discuss this. I will still choose to prefer a team of high school kids no matter how much you lecture me so save your breath. Have a great night.
 
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Drozz

Recruit
5 Year Member
Teddy? Seriously? 4th school in 3 years after coming from boys town then being kicked out of one college for domestic violence and other charges. Are you really going to ask me if he is soiled? If that is part of your argument then we can’t even discuss this. I will still choose to prefer a team of high school kids no matter how much you lecture me so save your breath. Have a great night.
Sounds like you better find a new team to root for then because unfortunately for you Hoiberg isn’t going anywhere, and if history says anything, neither will his recruitment of JUCOs.

And your comment “kids that screwed up high school so they had to go to some institution like Last Chance U to get a joke of a degree to make them eligible to play here for 1 or 2 years. I also don't want a bunch of kids that transferred because they weren't good enough or got in trouble somewhere else” was honestly pure crap. I’d be willing to bet you don’t know jack about some of these kids backgrounds and what led them down the path they are taking. But guess what, they are just as much “N” as anyone else on that roster. Good for them for getting done what needs to get done to make their situation better, in spite of bitter old “fans”.
 

LarstheRed

Travel Squad
5 Year Member
Teddy? Seriously? 4th school in 3 years after coming from boys town then being kicked out of one college for domestic violence and other charges. Are you really going to ask me if he is soiled? If that is part of your argument then we can’t even discuss this. I will still choose to prefer a team of high school kids no matter how much you lecture me so save your breath. Have a great night.
I'm fine if you take up knitting until you find a coach that creates the team you feel comfortable supporting...oh, wait, that was Barry Collier, and he's...well, I'll just leave it at that.
 

LarstheRed

Travel Squad
5 Year Member
Sounds like you better find a new team to root for then because unfortunately for you Hoiberg isn’t going anywhere, and if history says anything, neither will his recruitment of JUCOs.

And your comment “kids that screwed up high school so they had to go to some institution like Last Chance U to get a joke of a degree to make them eligible to play here for 1 or 2 years. I also don't want a bunch of kids that transferred because they weren't good enough or got in trouble somewhere else” was honestly pure crap. I’d be willing to bet you don’t know jack about some of these kids backgrounds and what led them down the path they are taking. But guess what, they are just as much “N” as anyone else on that roster. Good for them for getting done what needs to get done to make their situation better, in spite of bitter old “fans”.
I don't want to have a bunch of thugs acting like idiots at the end of the KU/KSU game, but I also know that there are guys that can actually get their act together even after several mistakes. The key to that is how they are held accountable once they get here. A quick look at how Fred has dealt with Green and Mack should clearly indicate that star or not, we have expectations. Teddy is not going to be around long if he acts a fool. Consequently, he's on level playing ground with all the rest coming in, so if he's a good teammate, and good student, and represents the university properly, his past is just that...the past.


I shouldn't be as harsh as I am with Skerfan, but the idea that the only way to create a strong team is by only bringing in kids who's dream is to play at the University of Nebraska, then we're going to be fielding a team of guys from Sumner, Thedford, Polk and Crete. Your pride and loyalty for a school is developed as you grow with your teammates. That doesn't necessarily take 3 or 4 years, it takes a team that has focus and plays together. Mack dishes the ball to everyone, is he some selfish mercenary? Who wouldn't like to have Isaac Copeland back in the mix? How about Evan Taylor? Or Okeke? Big Andre Almeida?

I played with a group of guys, none of whom I started my college expereince with. Our starters, 3 were transfers in. Of the top 8, 5 were transfers in. We were a ridiculously tight group...we still are. It's completely wrong to think the only way to build a loyal, tight unit is by coming from high school, and grinding through 4 years...it is truly absurd.
 
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RogelioVB

Recruit
Thaniks LarstheRed for ending the "cat fight". Hoiberg has dealt with the personalities and ego's aplenty, he knows what he's doing and, given the time, will bring some much appreciated success. Teddy? I've seen him play many times this year. A recent situation gave me hope that he's improving mentally and maybe maturing - close game, he's tightly guarding his man near the timekeeper table, ball is tipped and the official awards possession to opponent. Teddy's coach comes unglued and is yelling at the official about the bad call. Teddy walks towards his coach and says "I touched it", turns and tells the official "Nice call". Prior to that time I NEVER saw him exhibit this level of maturity. Teddy's team won "going away".
 
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