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Why Nebraska’s Tommy Armstrong Jr. is out to prove to NFL scouts that he’s ‘more than just a quarter

True, although Martinez was a tale of two cities. I think Tommy was a bit more consistent, even if the top end speed wasn't great.

Tommy also slid and knew how to take a hit, instead of Martinez RAISING UP INTO THE TACKLE, sigh
 
We started a couple of different guys in 2009, then replaced a returning senior starter with a redshirt freshman in 2010. When our all-conference senior quarterback went down in 2012, we plugged in another redshirt freshman who started for 4 seasons with two different staffs. The current staff made no effort to find a juco guy (like Callahan did) because they liked what they had. They even had a guy that they had actually recruited heavily, and he had to transfer. We still have a guy on the roster that we beat Virginia Tech, West Virginia, and Ohio State for on the recruiting trail, but he was moved to WR (because 20 WR on the roster just wasn't enough). He was moved back to QB part time only after there were literally no other options.

As far as RBs go, I hope you are joking. How many RBs do they need? Newby, Cross, Wilbon, and even Adam Taylor (who many were drooling over out of high school) were all on the roster when this staff arrived. 3 of those guys were 4-star backs out of high school.




I understand it just fine, which is why I don't blame a quarterback or other highly recruited players for things like consistent assignment failures over the course of a season or more.

I'm beginning to see why you like and defend Bo so much. Criticism, especially when leveled evenly, is not "blame". Perceiving criticism as blame creates defensiveness (see your posts) and deflection ("didn't execute out there").
 
I'm beginning to see why you like and defend Bo so much. Criticism, especially when leveled evenly, is not "blame". Perceiving criticism as blame creates defensiveness (see your posts) and deflection ("didn't execute out there").
In fairness, you probably aren't in the "blame Tommy for everything" crowd. There are a few that have popped in, and unfortunately an internet conversation often results in people being pulled in and assigned positions they didn't actually take.

I don't hold Tommy blameless. He would probably be the first to tell you that he could have done better. But I get frustrated when people say that we were hamstrung by a guy that really wasn't as bad as he's made out to be. If he had improved even a little bit between his sophomore and senior seasons, he would have been very good. I think it's unfortunate that he got caught in a coaching transition, because he looked to be on his way to some pretty good things early in his career. That's not necessary blaming the staff, just acknowledging the situation. I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that Tommy, as an individual player, probably would have been better off if the previous staff had remained. Whether or not that would have been good for the whole team is something that has obviously been discussed at length and doesn't need to be rehashed here.
 
Sorry, but if I could have the healthy T-Mart at QB, I'd take him over TA every day. He could take it to the house 80 plus yards (as he did against Wisky that one game). He truly was screwed because of the defensive teams we had when he was at his healthiest. He would run circles around TA, though and passed the ball better, too...especially in his Jr year.

Career-wise, Taylor Martinez is a ways down the list of great Nebraska QBs, but he was as good as any QB NU has ever had in 2012. He was the Big Ten offensive player of the week in a third of the games he played (incredible), first-team All-Big Ten per the coaches, and voted the team's MVP.

He also led NU to the CCG. The blowout in that game wasn't really about Taylor. You aren't going to be competitive in any game giving up 539 yards rushing. Doesn't matter who the QB is. He also nearly joined the elite club of QBs (I think it's 8 players long) who rushed for 1,000 yards and passed for 3,000 yards in a single season. He was 129 passing yards short. Imagine what a healthy TM could have done behind the vintage '90s lines.
 



Career-wise, Taylor Martinez is a ways down the list of great Nebraska QBs, but he was as good as any QB NU has ever had in 2012. He was the Big Ten offensive player of the week in a third of the games he played (incredible), first-team All-Big Ten per the coaches, and voted the team's MVP.

He also led NU to the CCG. The blowout in that game wasn't really about Taylor. You aren't going to be competitive in any game giving up 539 yards rushing. Doesn't matter who the QB is. He also nearly joined the elite club of QBs (I think it's 8 players long) who rushed for 1,000 yards and passed for 3,000 yards in a single season. He was 129 passing yards short. Imagine what a healthy TM could have done behind the vintage '90s lines.

I still tend to give Armstrong the nod over Martinez. Though, yes, pre-injury, Martinez's running ability was unmatched.

In the 2004-2016 era, I'd rank 'em like this:

1. Ganz
2. Z. Taylor
3. Armstrong
4. Martinez

Keller, Lee, Dailey, etc. fall well below those four.
 
I still tend to give Armstrong the nod over Martinez. Though, yes, pre-injury, Martinez's running ability was unmatched.

In the 2004-2016 era, I'd rank 'em like this:

1. Ganz
2. Z. Taylor
3. Armstrong
4. Martinez

Keller, Lee, Dailey, etc. fall well below those four.

Same top 2 for me, but I'd flip Martinez and Armstrong. I don't think I've ever seen another QB go from standing still to full speed faster than Martinez when he was it his best - the Thursday night K State when he was a freshman comes to mind. I thought he was NU's next Heisman winner at the time. He was also a career 60% passer vs. Tommy at 53%.
 
I still tend to give Armstrong the nod over Martinez. Though, yes, pre-injury, Martinez's running ability was unmatched.

In the 2004-2016 era, I'd rank 'em like this:

1. Ganz
2. Z. Taylor
3. Armstrong
4. Martinez

Keller, Lee, Dailey, etc. fall well below those four.
Ganz. Armstrong, Martinez, Taylor.

Zach Taylor wasn't really all that impressive. He had a solid senior season but didn't do anything all that exciting. He was tough as hell, though.
 
people may disagree or call me crazy, but for all the juice we got out of tommy, i feel that he threw guys into injuries far too often (if that makes sense). in hindsight, as hard as he played, he wouldn't have been my starter at qb. it's 20/20, but if i was told we would lose 7 games in 2015, and have him hobbled towards the end in 2016, i would have gone with someone else if i was coach.
but i'm not coach.
 



I still tend to give Armstrong the nod over Martinez. Though, yes, pre-injury, Martinez's running ability was unmatched.

In the 2004-2016 era, I'd rank 'em like this:

1. Ganz
2. Z. Taylor
3. Armstrong
4. Martinez

Keller, Lee, Dailey, etc. fall well below those four.

Ganz. Armstrong, Martinez, Taylor.

Zach Taylor wasn't really all that impressive. He had a solid senior season but didn't do anything all that exciting. He was tough as hell, though.

What metric/attribute leads you fellas to put Tommy over Taylor? Taylor had the better rushing/passing stats and QB rating. He won more games and led the team to 2 CCGs.
 
What metric/attribute leads you fellas to put Tommy over Taylor? Taylor had the better rushing/passing stats and QB rating. He won more games and led the team to 2 CCGs.

I'm not sure it's something that statistics can back up, I just felt he was a better quarterback. It's kind of like a comparison between Crouch and Frazier. Statistically, Crouch was better in pretty much every way. Shoot, Frazier could have played one more season and still wouldn't have matched most of Crouch's numbers. Crouch was faster, had a better overall completion percentage, ran for more yards, completed more passes, threw for more yards, scored more TDs, etc. But I doubt there are many people here that would take Crouch over Frazier if they had to pick the best QB of the last 30 years.
 
I'm not sure it's something that statistics can back up, I just felt he was a better quarterback. It's kind of like a comparison between Crouch and Frazier. Statistically, Crouch was better in pretty much every way. Shoot, Frazier could have played one more season and still wouldn't have matched most of Crouch's numbers. Crouch was faster, had a better overall completion percentage, ran for more yards, completed more passes, threw for more yards, scored more TDs, etc. But I doubt there are many people here that would take Crouch over Frazier if they had to pick the best QB of the last 30 years.

I agree stats don't tell the whole story, but wins and championships are the reason most people consider Frazier to be the best NU QB of all time. That speaks to Tommie's leadership but it also speaks to those teams having better talent top to bottom, especially in the trenches on both sides of the ball. Crouch undermined his own ability to lead the team by almost quitting when Newcombe was named the starter.

NU also had better overall teams when Taylor was the QB, but it's marginal. Individual stats aside, I give Taylor the nod for leading the team to more wins and 2 division titles.
 
Ganz. Armstrong, Martinez, Taylor.

Zach Taylor wasn't really all that impressive. He had a solid senior season but didn't do anything all that exciting. He was tough as hell, though.

Zac Taylor did win Big 12 Offensive Player of the year in 2005. The last Husker to be named the conference's best player was Eric Crouch (and no Husker has since). I'd suggest that's a pretty significant achievement.
 



I'm not sure it's something that statistics can back up, I just felt he was a better quarterback. It's kind of like a comparison between Crouch and Frazier. Statistically, Crouch was better in pretty much every way. Shoot, Frazier could have played one more season and still wouldn't have matched most of Crouch's numbers. Crouch was faster, had a better overall completion percentage, ran for more yards, completed more passes, threw for more yards, scored more TDs, etc. But I doubt there are many people here that would take Crouch over Frazier if they had to pick the best QB of the last 30 years.

Agreed.

I had more of a sense that Tommy was the leader of that team -- and a true field general -- than I did with Martinez.

Obviously, that's fairly subjective. And Martinez may well have gotten the nod from me if injuries really didn't knock him down a peg. But I can understand the argument either way between Martinez and Armstrong.
 
Agreed.

I had more of a sense that Tommy was the leader of that team -- and a true field general -- than I did with Martinez.

Obviously, that's fairly subjective. And Martinez may well have gotten the nod from me if injuries really didn't knock him down a peg. But I can understand the argument either way between Martinez and Armstrong.

I got the sense that the veterans took to Tommy's leadership but the younger players were less enthusiastic. Stanley Morgan looked like he wanted to punch him more often than he wanted to follow him.
 


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