1. You do not need to register if you are not going to pay the yearly fee to post. If you register please click here or log in go to "settings" then "my account" then "User Upgrades" and you can renew.
    Dismiss Notice

Question for SSO

Discussion in 'Football' started by Huskerthom, Jan 20, 2019.

  1. Huskerthom

    Huskerthom All Legend 5 Year Member

    Messages:
    16,466
    Likes Received:
    6,663
    @ShortSideOption you have talked a lot about the average muscle that could be added. I believe you said o average about 3-4 pounds per month. This is not to argue the point but rather clarify. Especially now since we are getting naturally bigger, taller, kids.

    OK so my assumption is that if a kid is taller genetics started him with more muscle mass. (Even though they may look less muscular because the muscles is spread out over a larger area. Generally averages are based on people of a certain size.

    So my question is that if a person 5'10" -6'tall may be able to add 3-4 pounds. If a person is almost a foot taller, does that then increase to 4-5 pounds a month potential. Again since you are starting with a higher number. The same percentage gives you a higher potential average. Put to the extreme. Shaq and Muggsie Bogges both lift with the same intensity. Shaq IMHO can add 2 more pounds on average per month to his frame although Muggsie may show it more.
     
  2. Cisco

    Cisco Recruit 2 Year Member

    Messages:
    372
    Likes Received:
    279
    Not SSO but the bigger the frame the more size potential there is. Two of the world's top strongman competitors are 6-8 and 6-9. So a guy with a huge frame might add a little faster but the biggest difference is in longterm potential.

    I think where people get hung up is on adding mass vs lean mass. Simply put, to add a large amount of mass QUICKLY there is no way around also adding some body fat. To bulk quickly you have to have a significant surplus of calories. I don't want to speak for someone else, but I think when people say it's impossible to add as much as what was reported in a few cases, the issue they are taking is with the lean muscle mass part.
     
  3. ShortSideOption

    ShortSideOption All Big 10 10 Year Member

    Messages:
    23,638
    Likes Received:
    14,073
    No idea as I really haven’t researched that at all, but science says 1-2 pounds per month that you can gain of muscle. I wouldn’t argue with someone if they said they gained 2-3 pounds per month no matter how tall they are. But if any height of person claims 20 pounds in 2 months, it’s impossible.

    I could subscribe to the taller you are the more you could put on, it takes longer to see the results for a tall person a lot of times too. Where this all comes up is a staff person saying it, or media guides showing a 30 pound weight gain in an offseason, if either is true it’s the wrong kind of weight. Lattimer on ‘The Program’ couldn’t even get that done in a fictional movie while cheating with steroids.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2019
  4. Huskerthom

    Huskerthom All Legend 5 Year Member

    Messages:
    16,466
    Likes Received:
    6,663
    Yeah iwas not tryi g to rehash all that. It poped in ny mind watching all the really tall guys in the poly bowl last night. Thought i would ask
     
    ShortSideOption likes this.
  5. Bean

    Bean Grey Shirt 5 Year Member

    Messages:
    1,719
    Likes Received:
    535
    This link suggests the below model is pretty accurate and backs up what SSO said:
    https://www.syattfitness.com/fat-loss/a-realistic-look-at-progress-fat-loss-and-mass-gain/

    Lyle’s Model:
    Years of Proper Training........ Potential Rate of Muscle Gain per Year
    1........................................20 – 25lbs
    2....................................... 10 – 12lbs
    3........................................ 5 – 6lbs
    4+....................................... 2 – 3lbs

    "As you can see, the rate of possible muscle gain significantly diminishes as training status improves. According to Lyle’s model, a male with 1 year of proper training may gain up to 20-25lbs of muscle in a year which roughly translates to 2lbs per month. A trainee with 2 solid years of proper training might gain 10-12lbs of muscle in a year or 1lb per month. Compare these figures with the supplement companies promises of gaining “10lbs of muscle in 4 weeks!” and you’ll begin to understand why most supplements are bull crap.

    Now I want to bring up a very important and commonly misunderstood aspect of training. You may or may not have noticed, but Lyle made it a point to label his first category “Years of Proper Training,” and not simply “Years of Training.” The use of the word “Proper” is extraordinarily important especially in the context of muscle gain.

    While many people “work out” and go to the gym, the (sad) reality is that most people are utterly clueless as to what constitutes proper training and never progress passed a beginner level. For some odd reason, despite being weak and skinny-fat, a large number of “bro’s” consider themselves advanced after 7 years of following the same split of Back/Bi’s and Chest/Tri’s. Sorry to inform you, brah, but you’re an idiot."

    "Before I end this section on mass gain I want to clear up on more thing: As Lyle and Alan’s models show, a beginner trainee with proper training and nutrition can expect a gain of about 2lbs per month. However, the gains described are strictly in regard to muscle. As I briefly touched upon earlier, in order to gain mass you must be in some form of a calorie surplus meaning that some fat gain is inevitable."

    There much more in the article.

    Duvall can be categorized as an expert in muscle gain and conditioning!
     
  6. ShortSideOption

    ShortSideOption All Big 10 10 Year Member

    Messages:
    23,638
    Likes Received:
    14,073
    I’m going to be interested to watch guys like Banks and Anderson.
     
  7. Huskerthom

    Huskerthom All Legend 5 Year Member

    Messages:
    16,466
    Likes Received:
    6,663
    Great info but it is kind of like if someone asks what is 2+2 and you answer the Capitol of Nebraska is Lincoln. Your answer is correct but not to the question I asked. Your answer responds again to what is "average" which means probably 5'10-6' guy. The question was. Does the average muscle per month possibility increase for an abnormally large person. Not by crazy amounts. So on a much larger guy does it possibly become 3 instead of 2?
     
  8. Bean

    Bean Grey Shirt 5 Year Member

    Messages:
    1,719
    Likes Received:
    535
    This article provides some evidence of big gains on big frames:
    https://www.omaha.com/huskers/football/roster-update-reveals-major-gains-of-more-than-pounds-among/article_62056cfa-34f7-526e-9722-0ade260789af.html

    "Davis made a startling gain — 295 pounds to 325 on a 6-foot-2 frame. He’s now big enough, theoretically, to play nose tackle. So is Vaha Vainuku, who’s also listed at 325. Damion Daniels went from 310 to 340.

    Foster bulked up from 310 pounds to 335. Jaimes now weighs 300, which may be 40 pounds more than he weighed last season when he became a rare true freshman starter at right tackle.

    The biggest gains among linemen belong to DaiShon Neal, who went from 275 pounds to 310, and Ben Stille, who’s up to 290 from 255."

    This is in the first year under Duvall so it looks pretty close to the same as those at lower weights.
     
  9. ShortSideOption

    ShortSideOption All Big 10 10 Year Member

    Messages:
    23,638
    Likes Received:
    14,073
    That’s the article I was referencing with some people putting on 30 pounds. That’s absolutely possible, it’s just not all good weight if it happens. They also were inflated a bit, which they all are in every program. It just made me laugh a bit because articles come out about it like it hadn’t happened before. Neal actually barely weighed 300 last year.
     
    Mack The Shark likes this.
  10. Bean

    Bean Grey Shirt 5 Year Member

    Messages:
    1,719
    Likes Received:
    535
    Any idea when the results of the strength/power training will be published? Looking at the below ink shows that NU Football performance indexes hasn't had any new records since 2012. Or, we just haven't had anyone break any records since then?

    https://admin.xosn.com/pdf9/5006607.pdf?DB_OEM_ID=100&
     
  11. ShortSideOption

    ShortSideOption All Big 10 10 Year Member

    Messages:
    23,638
    Likes Received:
    14,073
    There’s actually a bit of a debate that was going on up there. For example, we used to have our top squat maxes when we were winning national titles be 600 pounds or so. Now we are touting guys squatting 700+. So wheres the happy medium of lifting heavy to develop psychological advantages and an actual max?

    I think you’ll continue to see them highlight big gains from individuals, but maybe not give out the top5 like they used to. Tho I think that would be the way to go.
     
  12. LarstheRed

    LarstheRed Junior Varsity 5 Year Member

    Messages:
    6,584
    Likes Received:
    2,886
    Personally, I’m very interested in how numerous guys on the roster react to the offseason training. It’s obviously not just about the time they spend with Duval, but also the time they put in on their own. Remember, Aaron Graham made reference to some of their ‘private’ workouts that the S&C staff were pretty upset about. Apparently it was hard to keep those guys out of weight rooms in several locations around Lincoln.

    We all have interest in how someone like Washington will do, or the guys who are coming off surgery or injuries.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2019
  13. Bluffsker

    Bluffsker Recruit

    Messages:
    80
    Likes Received:
    82
    https://physicalculturestudy.com/2014/12/29/how-to-gain-63-pounds-of-muscle-in-28-days-the-infamous-colorado-experiment/

    So you can tear this case study to shreds pretty easily. Mostly with the muscle-memory theory among other theories like freak genetics etc. I don't doubt that it happened for the subject of the study. But it cant happen for everyone. And its probably not ideal for football players.

    I am not a genetic freak and I have never used steroids. I did not stop growing tall until I was 24 years old. I lifted weights in high school gym class and did a lot of low weight high rep weight lifting during the swim season, October-Feb, on three separate occasions from age 16-18. I did not workout from age 19-21.

    At age 21 I started lifting for mass. I was 6'1 and 170 lbs. I lifted causally for 12 weeks, 3 sets of 10 for each body part. THEN i did the program in the case study and added 25 lbs in 12 weeks. I added another 15 over the next 12 weeks. The workouts in this program only take about 30 minutes to complete. I was smoking half a pack of Marlboro Reds a day. I did not consume alcohol or other drugs. I did not have a training table. For breakfast i at 6 eggs and oats. For lunch I ate at chipotle, for dinner I ate a box of Kraft Dinner w/ a can of tuna. I drank a 3,0000 cal / 50 grams of protein weight gainer shake right before bed. I've never been above 10% body fat in my life. During swim season or cross country season I was usually around 8%. Everyone at the gym thought i was on gear. It was flattering. I took several breaks from lifting to train for triathlons. In 2008 I completed 2 half ironmans and 10-12 shorter sprints and Olympic distance triathlons. During this time I dropped back to the 200 lb range. After hanging up the bike and going back to the weight room, I went from 200lbs to 240 lbs within 4 months of HIT training. I'm now 6'3 240 and 10%body fat.

    My own personal experience makes me believe the numbers in the media guide are not that far off. I do believe there was some exaggeration, but the numbers are actually very close to the truth. If I had the resources of these student athletes in terms of support and nutrition and my own strength coach I believe I could have easily added another 15-25 lbs to my frame over a 12 month time frame.

    Oh yeah, and i never used creatine which really just fills your muscles with water...
     
  14. ShortSideOption

    ShortSideOption All Big 10 10 Year Member

    Messages:
    23,638
    Likes Received:
    14,073
    All makes sense. I just know what I saw on the scale and what the media guide said. It is what it is. I don’t even care about the media guide weights really. I get mad about the 20 pounds of muscle or the they didn’t squat comments. We are all on board. Don’t lie as well, it devalues what you are getting accomplished which is a ton.
     
  15. HuskerInTexas

    HuskerInTexas Red Shirt 2 Year Member

    Messages:
    2,512
    Likes Received:
    1,127
    So it sounds to me like you're now listing "lying" as one of the items in the top 50 of things needing to be corrected before pass rushing. Am I correct on that? :)
     

Share This Page