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Eric Crouch Gives Thoughts on Frost's Offense/Steve Calhoun Has Insight on POB/Gebbia (Post 51)

You appear to be missing my point. I didn't say that I'd "take a 50 something percent passer who can run over the many high 60 percent passers who can run". Not all offenses are the same, obviously. If McKenzie Milton was playing in Nebraska's offense from 98-01 he wouldn't be completing 67% of his passes. Likewise, if Crouch was playing in UCF's 2017 offense he would have a higher completion percentage.

Furthermore, not all QB's who can run have the same ability on the ground. Crouch is one of the most elite of running QB's in the history of CFB. Opponents would HAVE to game plan around that which would only help him from numbers in space standpoint.

Finally, something that should be an obvious factor in this discussion, is that one can't simply look at this in a vacuum. The number of athletic dual threat QB's who have experience in HS offenses that throw the ball a lot and share elements and passing game concepts with Frost's offense today is vastly different than the middle 90's when Crouch was in HS. Most athletic guys then were running the option.

I remember watching Woody Dantzler in person multiple times during the exact same years while he was at Clemson. That was in a relatively early version of Rich Rodriguez's offense and he put up huge numbers both running and passing. He had a strong arm but he wasn't any more natural of a passer than Crouch was. And the new offense we're going to run makes it even easier on the QB.
Next you'll be telling us how Mike Riley would win more at Nebraska than at Oregon State because of better athletes...Oops, many of us fell for that one. There is no way to be certain of your statement, and frankly, I don't buy it. If you aren't a good passer by the time you graduate HS, no matter what offense you are running, I don't believe you ever will be a truly good passer.
 
Gee whiz, thanks for educating me on the fact that this offense is different than Nebraska's 90's offense.

You appear to be missing my point. I didn't say that I'd "take a 50 something percent passer who can run over the many high 60 percent passers who can run". Not all offenses are the same, obviously. If McKenzie Milton was playing in Nebraska's offense from 98-01 he wouldn't be completing 67% of his passes. Likewise, if Crouch was playing in UCF's 2017 offense he would have a higher completion percentage.

Furthermore, not all QB's who can run have the same ability on the ground. Crouch is one of the most elite of running QB's in the history of CFB. Opponents would HAVE to game plan around that which would only help him from numbers in space standpoint.

Finally, something that should be an obvious factor in this discussion, is that one can't simply look at this in a vacuum. The number of athletic dual threat QB's who have experience in HS offenses that throw the ball a lot and share elements and passing game concepts with Frost's offense today is vastly different than the middle 90's when Crouch was in HS. Most athletic guys then were running the option.

I remember watching Woody Dantzler in person multiple times during the exact same years while he was at Clemson. That was in a relatively early version of Rich Rodriguez's offense and he put up huge numbers both running and passing. He had a strong arm but he wasn't any more natural of a passer than Crouch was. And the new offense we're going to run makes it even easier on the QB.

A QB who averages 67% will have that whether he throws 18 times or 36 times. If anything the less a QB throws the more important his accuracy becomes. Can't waste pass plays if very few of them are called.



C
 
Simply incorrect. He would have played and thrived. As he said, if he had been asked, he would have been able to throw well enough.

You must be defining "high level" as some sort of NFL-multiple progression offense. This offense calls for someone who has similar skills to an option QB....read the D and react to what they give you...that leads to high level results.
The bolded is a poor argument. Crouch wasn't a career 51.5% passer because "he wasn't asked to be". Crouch would not have played QB in the Frost O.
 



Next you'll be telling us how Mike Riley would win more at Nebraska than at Oregon State because of better athletes...Oops, many of us fell for that one. There is no way to be certain of your statement, and frankly, I don't buy it. If you aren't a good passer by the time you graduate HS, no matter what offense you are running, I don't believe you ever will be a truly good passer.
For the most part I would agree with your statement of being a good passer in High school. I certainly think there are exceptions where a certain drastic improvements could be made in the first year or two in college. But I think after that point it becomes more between the ears. You start making better passing decisions that help your improvement. Not necessarily get any better as a passer.
 
Check out Calhoun's insight from the Hail Varsity link in post #51?...

Calhoun has been around both of Nebraska’s returning scholarship quarterbacks for a long time. He started working with Patrick O’Brien when O’Brien was in ninth grade. Calhoun’s work with Tristan Gebbia started the summer before his seventh-grade season.

Calhoun dropped by the Hail Varsity Radio studio on Tuesday to chat about two of Nebraska’s top contenders at quarterback with host Chris Schmidt.

Hail Varsity's Full Podcast with Calhoun
 
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Calhoun on POB...

But Calhoun says that O’Brien is “actually a lot more athletic than people give him credit for, he just never really go the chance to show it in Coach Riley’s offense. In high school he ran an offense very similar to what Coach Frost wants to run here at Nebraska, and he ran for over 700 yards as a senior.”

On more than one occasion this offseason Frost has said that a functional running ability is what this offense requires, and Calhoun described O’Brien as the type of quarterback who can “get you between 6 and 8 yards.” But his biggest edge headed into the spring might not be physical.

“He can process information,” Calhoun said. “Just being with him over the last five or six years I take him through film, I take him on the board when he’s home in California. We definitely get into the mental part of playing quarterback as well. He’s going to be able to make all throws. He has the background in a spread offense. The other thing is he has a couple of games from last year. That game experience is going to help him and push him a little bit in the lead just to kind of start things off.”
 



About Gebbia...
Calhoun, who is working with Tanner Lee ahead of the NFL Draft and is in Lincoln for the Huskers’ pro day, said Lee raved about Gebbia’s interest in learning the position last season.

“[Gebbia] makes it a priority to make sure that he knows all the nuances of the offense,” Calhoun said, “because he knows that’s what’s going to allow him to be successful.”

As for Gebbia’s ability to hold up in the run game, Calhoun noted that the redshirt freshman might surprise some people.

“He’s a tough kid, even though he’s a little bit on the lighter side. He can definitely take some hits and get back up just because of his mentality. He’s not going to let somebody get a good shot on him and take him out of the game. He’s going to come back. He’s played hurt before. That’s not going to be a problem with him playing Big Ten football.

“If the pocket broke down he was definitely able to extend plays. He’s sneaky fast. He’d get out there and start running and he’d be running away from linebackers. He can get you 15 yards and get down or get out of bounds.”
 
Crouch, Frost, and especially Frazier would have been excellent quarterbacks in Frost's offense. Their ability to stress defenses with their running would have opened up the pass. The decision making, ball-handling, and football smarts that those guys possessed would have translated into a lot of good football.

Just as you don't need to run a 4.3 40, you also don't need to be a 70% passer. Crouch, Frost, and Frazier were asked to do different things, but it doesn't mean they would have been incapable. For what it's worth, in their final seasons each one of them averaged more yards per attempt and more yards per completion than NFL hopeful Tanner Lee. Each had a comparable passer rating as well (124 to 129 range), with the exception of Frazier. He blew them all away with a rating over 156. And Lee had almost no ability to run.

So yeah, those three would have been recruited and likely successful in this attack.
 
Crouch, Frost, and especially Frazier would have been excellent quarterbacks in Frost's offense. Their ability to stress defenses with their running would have opened up the pass. The decision making, ball-handling, and football smarts that those guys possessed would have translated into a lot of good football.

Just as you don't need to run a 4.3 40, you also don't need to be a 70% passer. Crouch, Frost, and Frazier were asked to do different things, but it doesn't mean they would have been incapable. For what it's worth, in their final seasons each one of them averaged more yards per attempt and more yards per completion than NFL hopeful Tanner Lee. Each had a comparable passer rating as well (124 to 129 range), with the exception of Frazier. He blew them all away with a rating over 156. And Lee had almost no ability to run.

So yeah, those three would have been recruited and likely successful in this attack.
I think I would most appreciate seeing today's Frost coach his younger self in his own offense.
 
Same for Crouch and for the HS version of Frost, HCSF would have recruited both heavily since they were Nebraska kids...but likely not as QB's, since neither could throw very well. Also, Someone posted something about lots of the passes in SF's offense are high percentage screens and short passes, LOL, we haven't had many QB's that were adept at these passes, which require a lot more touch on the ball...Crouch/Frost weren't among those that were adept at it.
I want to make it clear that I think Crouch could run Frosts offense. I just think there are many around the country that can do it better.
 



Gee whiz, thanks for educating me on the fact that this offense is different than Nebraska's 90's offense.

You appear to be missing my point. I didn't say that I'd "take a 50 something percent passer who can run over the many high 60 percent passers who can run". Not all offenses are the same, obviously. If McKenzie Milton was playing in Nebraska's offense from 98-01 he wouldn't be completing 67% of his passes. Likewise, if Crouch was playing in UCF's 2017 offense he would have a higher completion percentage.

Furthermore, not all QB's who can run have the same ability on the ground. Crouch is one of the most elite of running QB's in the history of CFB. Opponents would HAVE to game plan around that which would only help him from numbers in space standpoint.

Finally, something that should be an obvious factor in this discussion, is that one can't simply look at this in a vacuum. The number of athletic dual threat QB's who have experience in HS offenses that throw the ball a lot and share elements and passing game concepts with Frost's offense today is vastly different than the middle 90's when Crouch was in HS. Most athletic guys then were running the option.

I remember watching Woody Dantzler in person multiple times during the exact same years while he was at Clemson. That was in a relatively early version of Rich Rodriguez's offense and he put up huge numbers both running and passing. He had a strong arm but he wasn't any more natural of a passer than Crouch was. And the new offense we're going to run makes it even easier on the QB.
To clarify: I think Crouch can run Frost's offense but he isn't as equipped to do it as well as other kids coming out of high school every year.
 


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