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Devaney and Frost

LarstheRed said:
Your trolling act is growing old. Maybe you should try NOT to be back.
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Sorry you are bothered by the comparison.

In Jennning's four years at Nebraska he was 15-34-1 (.310). Clearly there was no winning culture. In Devaney's first year he was 9-2 with a win in the Gotham Bowl.

I think it is legitimate to compare the first years of Devaney and Frost and ask what accounted for Devaney's immediate success. It is not a knock on Frost. He seems to be struggling, yet I imagine that he will have success. Just not as quickly as Devaney. Whether his success will ever include a NC, well, who knows.
 

we're back said:
Sorry you are bothered by the comparison.

In Jennning's four years at Nebraska he was 15-34-1 (.310). Clearly there was no winning culture. In Devaney's first year he was 9-2 with a win in the Gotham Bowl.

I think it is legitimate to compare the first years of Devaney and Frost and ask what accounted for Devaney's immediate success. It is not a knock on Frost. He seems to be struggling, yet I imagine that he will have success. Just not as quickly as Devaney. Whether his success will ever include a NC, well, who knows.
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I honestly believe if we had more talent Frost would have been out of the gate much faster. Look at UCF and ask how did he do that... 0-12, to 6-6 to 13-0? There was considerable talent he inherited and then Frost latched onto Milton. UCF also wasn't playing the type of schools Frost is facing in the BIG.

BD's mentions (in his book) all the good players that were recruited by Bill Jennings and how it helped get the Huskers off on the right track. In some instances Frost has had the exact opposite with his #2 QB bailing just days before opening season. Combine that with a canceled first game, injury to AM and other factors there are reasons (not excuses) for what's happened. BD also had a HUGE roster compared to what Frost has now.

Bottom line it's very hard to compare 1962 to 2018 and draw any real conclusions. Lets also remember BD goes down as one of better college coaches of all time. Not saying SF MIGHT do likewise but that's a long time in the future.......
 
anotherdumbprediction said:
In addition to the reasons above, Bob had their ear because he was a man and they were college kids. Kids did what adults told them to, by virtue of their respective places in the hierarchy. Kids today only listen if they decide to. For some reason, you have to earn their respect first. You don’t just have it because you are in a position to be hired for $5mil.
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Interesting perspective.
 
Greatest Fan of All said:
Said as #1 Alabama is prepared to win its 6th championship in 10 years. I wonder if Clemson or Ohio State could interupt for a year or so?

No such thing as parity in CFB.
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Parity is the term used by mediocre and poor programs to explain their poor performance. Superior teams use it to point out how great they are. Alabama and Nick Saban don’t mention it much.....
 



DuckTownHusker said:
Biggest difference? The internet.

Honestly.

With the rapid speed at which information flows today, nobody has an ace up their sleeve anymore. Nebraska used to win on strength, conditioning and nutrition, along with great coaches and great athletes. But the secret sauce was the system. Other teams ran the option. But nobody ran it like us.

Today, there are no cones of silence. If Nebraska's doing something cool in the weight room, it's plastered all over social media. If Chip Kelly invents a new jet sweep, it's all over ESPN getting dissected by analysts and former players. If some high school kid is a freak athlete and tears it up some league in North Dakota, it's all over Hudl, Rivals and other boards. He'll have his own hype video on YouTube.

Look back at Nebraska stars of the past. Sure, we have some guys who got big offers from other schools. But a lot of them were guys who flew under the radar. They were snapping necks playing D3 ball in southern Kansas. Or competing in some 8-man league in Wyoming or South Dakota. We landed a BUNCH of diamonds in the rough because guys like Gill, Tenopir, McBride and others busted their rear-ends on the recruiting trails across the wild west. Today, Nick Saban has an army of minions who scour through the FaceTubes and Twitterpedias to find talent.

There are no secrets anymore due to the proliferation of information. Technology has brought parity.
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Technology certainly has a place but I would not consider it THE reason. Heck TO was welcoming Florida State and Bobby Bowden to Lincoln to showcase his organization. FSU copied everything and went onto a glorious run of success ... done well before the internet age.

IMO to address the question ... THE reason for the differences is television ... more specifically the money generated from television. Back in the days of Devaney there were only 3 dozen teams actively playing high level collegiate football. It simply was not worth the amount of investment required to field a team that made money. The money they made back then paled in comparison to today's environment. Back then no one heard to Boise State or UCF or Utah or K-State or Troy or Northern Illinois ... so on and so forth. Nowadays the list of colleges with teams capable of competing for the top 25 is huge.

Biggest difference is ... money (more specifically money generated by television revenues).
 
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we're back said:
Sorry you are bothered by the comparison.

In Jennning's four years at Nebraska he was 15-34-1 (.310). Clearly there was no winning culture. In Devaney's first year he was 9-2 with a win in the Gotham Bowl.

I think it is legitimate to compare the first years of Devaney and Frost and ask what accounted for Devaney's immediate success. It is not a knock on Frost. He seems to be struggling, yet I imagine that he will have success. Just not as quickly as Devaney. Whether his success will ever include a NC, well, who knows.
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Don't mind the thread but IMO it is not a legitimate comparison because it is literally a half of a century ago.

Players are different ... money is different ... competitive schools are different ... technology is different ... Title IX didn't exist ... conferences are different ... training methods ... nutrition ... coaching is different ... resources available is different ... so on and so forth.
 
cthusker said:
I honestly believe if we had more talent Frost would have been out of the gate much faster. Look at UCF and ask how did he do that... 0-12, to 6-6 to 13-0? There was considerable talent he inherited and then Frost latched onto Milton. UCF also wasn't playing the type of schools Frost is facing in the BIG.
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I disagree on the lack of talent excuse.

We may not have the talent to compete for a NC or B1G championship but we sure in the heck have enough top 25 talent ... more talent than Troy or Purdue or Illinois.

The lack of talent is NOT why we are 0-6. For SF to use that excuse bothers me.

Take the talent you have, coach it up, develop it and do something with it.

Our recruiting rankings over the last 5 years are better than Wisconsin yet we're 0-5 against Wisconsin.

We may not have depth. We may have positions lacking (OL, LBs) but there's not a team in the B1G that wouldn't take Stanley Morgan, JD Speilman, AM, Devine Ozigbo, DiCapro Bootle, Carlos Davis, Damion Daniels, Mo Barry ... from our roster. Lack of talent is a BS excuse!
 
wcbsas said:
I disagree on the lack of talent excuse.

We may not have the talent to compete for a NC or B1G championship but we sure in the heck have enough top 25 talent ... more talent than Troy or Purdue or Illinois.

The lack of talent is NOT why we are 0-6. For SF to use that excuse bothers me.

Take the talent you have, coach it up, develop it and do something with it.

Our recruiting rankings over the last 5 years are better than Wisconsin yet we're 0-5 against Wisconsin.

We may not have depth. We may have positions lacking (OL, LBs) but there's not a team in the B1G that wouldn't take Stanley Morgan, JD Speilman, AM, Devine Ozigbo, DiCapro Bootle, Carlos Davis, Damion Daniels, Mo Barry ... from our roster. Lack of talent is a BS excuse!
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So we disagree what else is new? lol... I believe our offensive and defensive lines are simply not very good. There's only so far you can coach up players that have limited talent. He also doesn't have players recruited for his system with a few exceptions.

You see it as an excuse I see it has a reason........ What's going to be telling is what happens over the next several years and where it all shakes out. If after 3 years we're still a bottom feeder defense, having .500 seasons I'll say there is then cause to be concerned.....

Nothing that SF has said to date bothers me right now...........
 




Amazingly, if simply +/- 10 plays this season had went our way, we wouldn't be having this discussion....and the other umpteen threads about our coach and record.
 
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Here's the 2017 All Big 10 players... How many Huskers do we see? Just because a players team isn't great doesn't mean talented players won't be recognized imo... Yes it helps but we have a TOTAL of 2 named while Wisky has 11... I do not believe that's all due to better coaching but rather Wisky has more talented players. Obviously people will see or have other explainations for this disparity... For me this is not just about coaching but rather Nebraska over all lack of talent... especially on our O and D lines...

  • Simmie Cobbs Jr., Indiana (Coaches-1; Media-1)
  • D. J. Moore, Maryland (Coaches-1; Media-1)
  • Stanley Morgan Jr., Nebraska (Coaches-2; Media-2)
  • DaeSean Hamilton, Penn State (Coaches-2; Media-3)
  • Felton Davis III, Michigan State (Coaches-3; Media-2)
  • Parris Campbell, Ohio State (Coaches-3)
  • JD Spielman, Nebraska (Media-3)
  • Billy Price, Ohio State (Coaches-1; Media-1)
  • Brian Allen, Michigan State (Coaches-2; Media-2)
  • Tyler Biadasz, Wisconsin (Coaches-3; Media-3)
  • Beau Benzschawel, Wisconsin (Coaches-1; Media-1)
  • Michael Jordan, Ohio State (Coaches-1; Media-2)
  • Sean Welsh, Iowa (Coaches-2; Media-1)
  • Ben Bredeson, Michigan (Coaches-2; Media-2)
  • David Beedle, Michigan State (Coaches-3; Media-3)
  • Tommy Doles, Northwestern (Coaches-3; Media-3)
[2]

  • Nick Bosa, Ohio State (Coaches-1; Media-1)
  • Tyquan Lewis, Ohio State (Coaches-1; Media-1)
  • Maurice Hurst, Michigan (Coaches-1; Media-1)
  • Rashan Gary, Michigan (Coaches-1; Media-2)
  • Chase Winovich, Michigan (Coaches-2; Media-1)
  • Sam Hubbard, Ohio State (Coaches-2; Media-2)
  • Alec James, Wisconsin (Coaches-2; Media-2)
  • Conor Sheehy, Wisconsin (Coaches-2; Media-3)
  • Joe Gaziano, Northwestern (Coaches-3; Media-2)
  • Kenny Willekes, Michigan State (Coaches-3; Media-3)
  • Dre'mont Jones, Ohio State (Coaches-3)
  • Gelen Robinson, Purdue (Coaches-3)
  • Anthony Nelson, Iowa (Media-3)
  • Shareef Miller, Penn State (Media-3)
  • Josey Jewell, Iowa (Coaches-1; Media-1)
  • T. J. Edwards, Wisconsin (Coaches-1; Media-1)
  • Devin Bush, Michigan (Coaches-1; Media-2)
  • Tegray Scales, Indiana (Coaches-2; Media-1)
  • Garret Dooley, Wisconsin (Coaches-2; Media-3)
  • Jason Cabinda, Penn State (Coaches-2)
  • Khaleke Hudson, Michigan (Coaches-3; Media-2)
  • Paddy Fisher, Northwestern (Coaches-3; Media-2)
  • Joe Bachie, Michigan State (Coaches-3; Media-3)
  • Thomas Barber, Minnesota (Media-3)
  • Josh Jackson, Iowa (Coaches-1; Media-1)
  • Nick Nelson, Wisconsin (Coaches-1; Media-1)
  • Marcus Allen, Penn State (Coaches-1; Media-2)
  • D'Cota Dixon, Wisconsin (Coaches-1; Media-3)
  • Denzel Ward, Ohio State (Coaches-2; Media-1)
  • David Dowell, Michigan State (Media-1)
  • Rashard Fant, Indiana (Coaches-3; Media-2)
  • Godwin Igwebuike, Northwestern (Coaches-2; Media-2)
  • Amani Oruwariye, Penn State (Coaches-2; Media-2)
  • Kyle Queiro, Northwestern (Coaches-3; Media-3)
  • Lavert Hill, Michigan (Coaches-2)
  • Jordan Fuller, Ohio State (Coaches-3)
  • Derrick Tindal, Wisconsin (Coaches-3)
  • Josiah Scott, Michigan State (Media-3)
  • Damon Webb, Ohio State (Media-3)
  • Ryan Anderson, Rutgers (Coaches-1; Media-1)
  • Blake Gillikin, Penn State (Coaches-2; Media-2)
  • Drue Chrisman, Ohio State (Coaches-3; Media-3)
  • Saquon Barkley, Penn State (Coaches-1; Media-1)
  • DeAndre Thompkins, Penn State (Coaches-2; Media-3)
  • Parris Campbell, Ohio State (Coaches-3; Media-2)
[3]
 
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cthusker said:
Here's the 2017 All Big 10 players... How many Huskers do we see? Just because a players team isn't great doesn't mean talented players won't be recognized imo... Yes it helps but we have a TOTAL of 2 named while Wisky has 11... I do not believe that's all due to better coaching but rather Wisky has more talented players. Obviously people will see or have other explainations for this disparity... For me this is not just about coaching but rather Nebraska over all lack of talent... especially on our O and D lines...
Click to expand...

I am not going to go through the entire list but rather I am going to focus on the four Wisconsin offensive linemen listed - Benzchawel, Deiter, Biadasz and David Edwards.

They came from the '14 (Deiter) , '15 (Edwards) and 2016 recruiting classes. Those classes collectively from UW per 24/7 was ranked 32nd, 41st and 35th respectively. All four of those players had rankings from 24/7 recruiting system of 0.8026 (Benzchawel), 0.8328 (Deiter), 0.8405 (Biadasz) and 0.8600 (Edwards). Biadasz and Edwards had national rankings of #1061 and #638 respectively. The other two were not ranked nationally. The 24/7 ranking is comparable to a high 2 star or low to mid-3 star ranking on the Rivals system.

The point is ... its not about "talent" or perceived talent but rather coaching, development, strength & conditioning ...

Nebraska has offensive linemen on this current team that had higher recruiting rankings than these 4.

Maybe we are getting stuck on the definition of talent but it is not like Nebraska does not have talent. The problem is it has not been developed or coached well enough.
 



wcbsas said:
I am not going to go through the entire list but rather I am going to focus on the four Wisconsin offensive linemen listed - Benzchawel, Deiter, Biadasz and David Edwards.

They came from the '14 (Deiter) , '15 (Edwards) and 2016 recruiting classes. Those classes collectively from UW per 24/7 was ranked 32nd, 41st and 35th respectively. All four of those players had rankings from 24/7 recruiting system of 0.8026 (Benzchawel), 0.8328 (Deiter), 0.8405 (Biadasz) and 0.8600 (Edwards). Biadasz and Edwards had national rankings of #1061 and #638 respectively. The other two were not ranked nationally. The 24/7 ranking is comparable to a high 2 star or low to mid-3 star ranking on the Rivals system.

The point is ... its not about "talent" or perceived talent but rather coaching, development, strength & conditioning ...

Nebraska has offensive linemen on this current team that had higher recruiting rankings than these 4.

Maybe we are getting stuck on the definition of talent but it is not like Nebraska does not have talent. The problem is it has not been developed or coached well enough.
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Here's the rub though. Wisconsin produces a half-dozen of those 2 and 3-star big bodied kids who can be developed for either side of the line every year. Nebraska is lucky to produce 1 or 2 kids per cycle of the same caliber. To add insult to injury, one of them (Bryson Williams) signed with Wisconsin last year. Gut punch.

It's a numbers game, and I have my doubts whether Nebraska can bring in enough bodies on the O and D lines to dominate the west in the fashion fans seem to expect if not demand.
 
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we're back said:
What is the difference between their first years?

Devaney inherited a team with a losing tradition (at least in the years just prior to his hiring). How was it that he was immediately successful?
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Well WB, about 45 posts have been made in attempt to answer your question. What would you say is the answer? I heard some talk about inheriting talent and not playing as demanding of a schedule. What else was mentioned? Some said players today dont give unconditional respect to their coach like they did back in 1962. I heard folks say there is no such thing as parity. Did they do any research to compare the strength of schedule in 1962 to the strength of the schedule in 2018?
 

wcbsas said:
I am not going to go through the entire list but rather I am going to focus on the four Wisconsin offensive linemen listed - Benzchawel, Deiter, Biadasz and David Edwards.

They came from the '14 (Deiter) , '15 (Edwards) and 2016 recruiting classes. Those classes collectively from UW per 24/7 was ranked 32nd, 41st and 35th respectively. All four of those players had rankings from 24/7 recruiting system of 0.8026 (Benzchawel), 0.8328 (Deiter), 0.8405 (Biadasz) and 0.8600 (Edwards). Biadasz and Edwards had national rankings of #1061 and #638 respectively. The other two were not ranked nationally. The 24/7 ranking is comparable to a high 2 star or low to mid-3 star ranking on the Rivals system.

The point is ... its not about "talent" or perceived talent but rather coaching, development, strength & conditioning ...

Nebraska has offensive linemen on this current team that had higher recruiting rankings than these 4.

Maybe we are getting stuck on the definition of talent but it is not like Nebraska does not have talent. The problem is it has not been developed or coached well enough.
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Points well taken and it's a good discussion imo. It looks like we're going to need time to decide if it's a talent issue, coaching issue, strength and conditioning or some combination. There was a time Nebraska was a flowing pipeline for many positions into the NFL which sadly has almost dried up now. Obviously you don't need to be drafted to be a good college player but the BEST teams seem to place a lot players in the NFL. Won't go into teams like Ohio State, Alabama, PSU or Georgia.. etc but their talent pool is without a doubt very deep.

If HCSF is going to bring Nebraska back to winning our division, playing for Big championships and moving up in the rankings he's going to need a serious talent upgrade imo. It's going to be interesting the next several years to watch what happens. If after a couple of recruiting cycles we're suddenly in the hunt we can revisit the talent issue........
 
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