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Creighton Thread '16-'17

Pathetic performance.

I'm not going to the Watson injury card. The way the PG position was (mis)handled is inexcusable.

Then Harrell ends up playing the point after not seeing serious minutes all year?

I'm dumbfounded. Speechless.
 

Pattons "handler" was in New York during conference tournament and the Bucks told him 18th pick or better. Tough to turn that down.
I think he can just as easily slip into the second round if a few guys have some really strong games down the stretch of the tourney. That would make life a little less rosy.
 
Pattons "handler" was in New York during conference tournament and the Bucks told him 18th pick or better. Tough to turn that down.
I think he can just as easily slip into the second round if a few guys have some really strong games down the stretch of the tourney. That would make life a little less rosy.

Let me first say that one should take my assessment of NBA futures with a grain of salt....I would have laughed in your face if you told me Anthony Tolliver would have a career at all or that Korver would have been more than a role player, much less an All Star.

That said mid-to-late first round is what a lot of draft projections have had him at so that "18" is nothing new.

That 18 being "tough to turn down"...just from a financial aspect...may not actually be the case.

http://www.basketballinsiders.com/nba-salaries/nba-rookie-salary-scale-by-draft-year/

A lot will depend on what the scouts tell him he needs to work on and where, if he's successful at addressing those areas, he might end up next year. If the opinion is in the top 7 or 8 then there's not really any financial harm in waiting a year. At 18 he'd be guaranteed $1.5. At 8 he'd be guaranteed $2.5. He'd make up most of the "lost salary" from 2017/2018. At 6 or 7 he'd make it up entirely. And then there's the risk that he falls to the late first or 2nd. I think, barring injury, there's almost no doubt that he'd go higher next year than this.

He is still growing into his body. I've mentioned that throughout the season. He has shown flashes of things that have to have NBA scouts drooling. There was a play in the URI game where he started about 18' out on the wing...took two dribbles and was at the rim for a lay-up...which he missed. Missing it isn't a problem. In a couple years he'll just dunk it. The point is there are very few 20 year old 7 footers that can do that. There are relatively few NBA 7 footers of any age that can do that. He has show he can hit from 20'. Block shots. Etc. But he hasn't shown any of it, other than an ability to run the court, on a real consistent basis. He will be of zero value to an NBA team next year.

That last part (zero value) means he will either not play more than a few minutes a game or play in the D-league IMO. Does he want to ride a bus all season and play in Sioux Falls and Ft. Wayne?

The tangibles are fairly easy to predict once the scouts really break things down for him...where he will get drafted, about how much he'll sign for, what he can expect for his rookie season.

It's the other stuff that nobody I've heard from really knows. Does he like or hate school? No idea. Can he and his family wait a year to cash in? No idea. If there is real financial hardship NOW then he's gone. Does he like his college team/teammates? All indications are yes. Does the way he and his team finished the year leave a bad enough taste in his mouth that he wants to come back and erase that? I'd hope so.

When Mo went down JP's season tailed off with it to a degree. That probably isn't lost on NBA scouts. I think he's going to be really good in the NBA. And if he is then over the long haul forgoing that $1.5M next year will have no impact on his net worth by the time he signs that 2nd contract.

I have no idea what he's going to do. Some think it's cut and dried yes or cut and dried no. I think they are guessing in both cases. Hopefully, he's getting good advice from people who both KNOW what they are talking about and give a crap about him. Fortunately, Mac went through this very recently with Doug so it's not foreign territory. It's easy for me to say but college may be the last time he'll play the game for fun and without major politics/personality clashes/egos/etc. To a 20 year old he probably has no idea about that reality.
 



I believe that if you are a guaranteed 1st round pick, you go pro 100 times out of 100. In the long run, he may make more money by staying and improving his stock, but nothing is guaranteed in life and nobody should sit on a lottery ticket. Doug was in a completely different situation where his dad was the head coach and quite wealthy. In his shoes, I would have done the same thing. Virtually any other scenario, I'm gone. Then again, I'm only 6'4" and lack skill so it's not my decision to make.

Side question. How mentally tough is the kid? Sometimes, players like Patton can get mentally broken when they first get into the league. They are young and just aren't big enough yet. Some freak like DeAndre Jordan puts you on a couple of posters and your confidence and psyche is just gone. Is he mentally tough enough to fight through that? Bilsker?
 
I believe that if you are a guaranteed 1st round pick, you go pro 100 times out of 100. In the long run, he may make more money by staying and improving his stock, but nothing is guaranteed in life and nobody should sit on a lottery ticket. Doug was in a completely different situation where his dad was the head coach and quite wealthy. In his shoes, I would have done the same thing. Virtually any other scenario, I'm gone. Then again, I'm only 6'4" and lack skill so it's not my decision to make.

Side question. How mentally tough is the kid? Sometimes, players like Patton can get mentally broken when they first get into the league. They are young and just aren't big enough yet. Some freak like DeAndre Jordan puts you on a couple of posters and your confidence and psyche is just gone. Is he mentally tough enough to fight through that? Bilsker?


I was just discussing the same thing with a JUCO coach this weekend, but about baseball. We were discussing that the risk behind "improving your stock" is maybe not worth it. When the pros come calling, it might just be best to answer, regardless of the draft position.
 
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I believe that if you are a guaranteed 1st round pick, you go pro 100 times out of 100. In the long run, he may make more money by staying and improving his stock, but nothing is guaranteed in life and nobody should sit on a lottery ticket. Doug was in a completely different situation where his dad was the head coach and quite wealthy. In his shoes, I would have done the same thing. Virtually any other scenario, I'm gone. Then again, I'm only 6'4" and lack skill so it's not my decision to make.

Side question. How mentally tough is the kid? Sometimes, players like Patton can get mentally broken when they first get into the league. They are young and just aren't big enough yet. Some freak like DeAndre Jordan puts you on a couple of posters and your confidence and psyche is just gone. Is he mentally tough enough to fight through that? Bilsker?
Honestly I am not sure about the mental toughness aspect. Certainly haven't seen anything to show he lacks in that area. He was mature enough to be a 4 or 5* recruit and understand that a redshirt year was in his best interest. And he used that year wisely. So in that sense he seems at least mature.

Can he handle getting abused badly in the nba or the indignity of the D league? Good question.

There are guys about every year that come back so in wouldn't say 100/100. IIRC Chris Dunn from Providence was a potential 1st rounder. We could probably find 1 or 2 a year that wait...maybe not...can't say it's anything I've had to pay much attention to before.

I think risk of injury is minimal. Who is the last guy to suffer a career ending injury?

It's really just a total guess unless we are inside his head. Those two mock drafts I just posted show that there's a pretty wide potential range.

What's the rule on that second contract? Does the original team have an advantage or is it true "free agency". I'd hate to be the team that develops him with little return and then loses him before reaping the benefits.
 




What's the rule on that second contract? Does the original team have an advantage or is it true "free agency". I'd hate to be the team that develops him with little return and then loses him before reaping the benefits.

Yes, the team that drafts them has the benefit. They are allowed to sign them to an extension after their 3rd year. If no extension, the team that drafts them has the option to match any offer. One thing the NBA has done is make it difficult for a player to leave the team that drafted them. Since the NBA has become a league of drafting on "potential" it protects the team that takes the chance.

A question about Patton, as I haven't seen him play, how are his hands? This is a huge aspect of the NBA game. If a big struggles handling passes or rebounds, he will struggle. There is always someone swiping at the ball.
 
Yes, the team that drafts them has the benefit. They are allowed to sign them to an extension after their 3rd year. If no extension, the team that drafts them has the option to match any offer. One thing the NBA has done is make it difficult for a player to leave the team that drafted them. Since the NBA has become a league of drafting on "potential" it protects the team that takes the chance.

A question about Patton, as I haven't seen him play, how are his hands? This is a huge aspect of the NBA game. If a big struggles handling passes or rebounds, he will struggle. There is always someone swiping at the ball.

Thanks for the info.

He's very good at catching the ball in traffic and finishing. But if he catches and holds the ball he gets stripped more than you'd like...same on contested rebounds. Much if that is a matter of strength and won't be a long term issue IMO. It will be early on if he goes now.
 
I was just discussing the same thing with a JUCO coach this weekend, but about baseball. We were discussing that the risk behind "improving your stock" is maybe not worth it. When the pros come calling, it might just be best to answer, regardless of the draft position.

Baseball is much different. You have "junior year leverage" come into play, which virtually guarantees you sign....
 
My guess he stays. He's having too much fun right now to leave. NBA is a job. No fun. Finances aren't a consideration. No, the parents aren't multi-millionaires, but they are doing fine. And too many parts of his game to work on. Best work on them in the Big East then the D league...
 



Baseball is much different. You have "junior year leverage" come into play, which virtually guarantees you sign....

Well, that issue is slightly more complicated with JUCO options, but not really my point.

The gravamen of our discussion was that when the professional leagues dial you up, saying "no" is far riskier than I think people give it credit, because you are betting 1) you won't get hurt, and 2) you will get better. It may very well be that you end up performing at a lower level in the following year, and you cost yourself money because you've been exposed.
 
Well, that issue is slightly more complicated with JUCO options, but not really my point.

The gravamen of our discussion was that when the professional leagues dial you up, saying "no" is far riskier than I think people give it credit, because you are betting 1) you won't get hurt, and 2) you will get better. It may very well be that you end up performing at a lower level in the following year, and you cost yourself money because you've been exposed.
Read somewhere that an A&M big that was considered a high 1stbrounder is coming back. That could mean JP moves up 1...or it could give one hope that it's not a lock that guys bail early.

As for your risks...yes, injury is always a risk. But...knock on wood...not a huge one in bball. The risk that you don't actually improve is almost nil in this case. His improvement from HS Jr to Sr and then from Sr to RS frosh has been exponential if you ask those that have seen the transformation. And the thing that has him even in this conversation is that there is so much more room from growth...both in his game and his body. He appears to have the work ethic to realize that growth. So I don't see a lot of risk bit what risk there is is in the injury dept.

Fact is his entire appeal is his potential. In 6 months he will be entirely worthless to an NBA team. From a purely basketball standpoint he should come back....and that can mitigate the financial part of waiting. But that's easy for me to say...
 

P.s....if anything this last month or so of THIS season exposed his major weaknesses. Most obviously defensively. But he also has trouble impacting the game on his own without being set up by a guy like watson (i.e. the countless lobs that mo got him). That's not a knock as far as I'm concerned...it's just where he is right now imo.

Obviously the real nba scouts know all this and more. I'm sure it didn't take the last month of the season for them to understand all that.
 

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