Creighton Thread '16-'17

[bilsker]

Huge win. Creighton just really matches up well with these guys. Butler is no joke. They have wins v. Nova, Arizona, Xavier, Cincy...all top 20 RPI teams. But the jays are clearly better than Butler...dominated the first game for most of the game and played really well tonight. 2-0 against them will look good at seeding time.

Jays aren't out of the woods yet. Because Butler is a good match-up I don't want to get too jazzed thinking all is well now. Can't count on shooting 62% from 3 every night. But man this was big. Xavier should be beatable without Sumner but far from a lock. But beat them and Depaul and confidence will be high at 22-3 and heading out on the road to Seton Hall.

I feel better tonight than I did after G'town, that's for sure.

 

[Husker Eponymous]

Historically, Kansas State is a pretty good basketball school with plenty of tradition. Hartman and Kruger had that program at a high level for a lot of years. Dana inherited the keys to a quality program and couldn't keep it functioning at that level. He was a young coach though at the time, obviously not the coach he would blossom into later. .

You may want to check your history on that... Altman inherited the keys to a dumpster fire and started winning. Unfortunately, KSU thought they were KU and Altman left for CU.

 

[Husker Eponymous]

Big win against Butler. Jays looked like they were back in a groove. Clement looks better then he has all year, Mintz looked smooth in the paint, and the other parts were working. Not to mention the 3 pointer reappeared. One game out of first, and the Jays own the tiebreaker against the 3rd place team (darn Providence couldn't do it last night!!!)

Nice win for Xavier last night, beating the Hall at home. Packed house on Saturday, I'm there.

 

[Rainbow Dash]

You may want to check your history on that... Altman inherited the keys to a dumpster fire and started winning. Unfortunately, KSU thought they were KU and Altman left for CU.

This was before my time so maybe you can help me understand. Lon Kruger coached the four years before Altman. In those years, Kansas State had 4 NCAA tournament appearances, advancing one year all the way to the Elite 8. Why do you say that was a dumpster fire that Altman inherited? On paper, that's not a bad run. Was there more to it? Help me to understand.

 

[Husker Eponymous]

Long story short: Kruger came back to his alma mater and led them to 4 straight tourneys, highlighted by the Elite 8 in 1988, then was knocked out in the first round in 89 and 90. Keep in mind this is at the same time as KU's "Danny and the Miracles" run in 1988 (KU knocked out KSU in the Elite 8 that year).

When Kruger didn't produce in 89 and 90 (didn't produce in the sense that he didn't advance in the tourney), the pressure from the boosters was overbearing (again, KSU thought they should have success like KU), and with the cupboard being dry after the 1990 season, Kruger bolted for Florida (keep in mind, Kruger played basketball at K-State). Fans and boosters were livid.

Altman took over, restocked the cupboard, and in year 3 took KSU back to the tourney, but in year 4 the heat was on. Although Altman knocked off #1 KU in 94, and went to the NIT final four, Altman saw the writing on the wall and left for Creighton.

Here's some history: After Altman beat #1 KU in 1994, K-State didn't beat KU again until 2006. Also, after Altman left, K-State had one NCAA bid and two NIT bids from 1994- 2006 (Altman led them to 2 NIT's and 1 NCAA in 4 years). Safe to say that during that span, KSU learned that they are not Kansas basketball.

 

[Rainbow Dash]

So the program was successful but there wasn't a lot of talent after Kruger bolted. I went back and looked at their roster, you're right, a few nice pieces but not a lot of fire power. I would have to disagree with calling it a 'dumpster fire' but it's not like he inherited Mitch Richmond either.

I've always liked Altman, he's a really good coach.

 

[bilsker]

So the program was successful but there wasn't a lot of talent after Kruger bolted. I went back and looked at their roster, you're right, a few nice pieces but not a lot of fire power. I would have to disagree with calling it a 'dumpster fire' but it's not like he inherited Mitch Richmond either.

I've always liked Altman, he's a really good coach.

I think Altman and McDermott....and guys like Collier, Sadler and possibly Miles....are good examples of the fact that you can't just label a guy a "flop" or "the next great thing" etc.

Fit matters. McDermott wasn't a fit for ISU at the time. Maybe he wasn't ready. Maybe he learned some hard lessons that he's since been able to draw from. And just because a guy has had success all the way up the ladder (Miles, collier, etc.) doesn't mean they can get it done at the power conference level. This can apply to the whole debate that rages on the football board too. A guy's previous stop doesn't necessarily translate to the next.

Altman. KSU fans would call him a flop. Many on this board said "he's successful at a mid-major now...that's his niche". Well, he's been incredibly successful at Oregon now. Maybe being the king of the hill in Oregon v. being the red headed step child in Kansas has something to do with it.

I was just talking to someone about shaka smart the other day. Texas is downright awful. But he took them to the dance in year one. Which is it? Is he great or is he a flop. Who knows? We assume he's going to be great. But that assumption isn't really based on any real evidence. Lots of guys like him have flopped on the big stage.

I'm totally scattered here. My point is that people think hiring is simply "opening the checkbook". Or hiring the hot "up and comer". Rassmussen was looked at like "WTH?" with both of those hires (altman and Mcdermott) but he apparently knew that there was more to it than just hiring a name that gets the fan base giddy. The man is probably going to retire having made probably 2 of the best basketball coaching hires in the entire game over his tenure. Who has made better hires that weren't simply a matter of writing someone like Bill Self a huge check to leave Illinois? He could probably have a good post retirement career as a consultant to AD hiring coaches. Unfortunately, appeasing a fan base is a large part of keeping one's job as an AD. Eichorst for example...he's going to either be a genius for hiring Riley or lose his job over it. That's what he gets for hiring someone he thinks is a great FIT over hiring someone like Dan Mullen.

 

[Husker Eponymous]

So the program was successful but there wasn't a lot of talent after Kruger bolted. I went back and looked at their roster, you're right, a few nice pieces but not a lot of fire power. I would have to disagree with calling it a 'dumpster fire' but it's not like he inherited Mitch Richmond either.

I've always liked Altman, he's a really good coach.

Pissed off fans, pissed off boosters, pissed off admin, mediocre talent on the roster, native son leaves for greener pastures, not to mention Altman became the man replacing THE MAN. Maybe not a complete dumpster fire, but certainly not an ideal situation.

If K-State realized "who they were", instead of thinking they were Kansas, things might've been different in Manhattan in the 90's and 2000's

 

[Husker Eponymous]

I'm totally scattered here. My point is that people think hiring is simply "opening the checkbook". Or hiring the hot "up and comer". Rasmussen was looked at like "WTH?" with both of those hires (altman and Mcdermott) but he apparently knew that there was more to it than just hiring a name that gets the fan base giddy. The man is probably going to retire having made probably 2 of the best basketball coaching hires in the entire game over his tenure. Who has made better hires that weren't simply a matter of writing someone like Bill Self a huge check to leave Illinois? He could probably have a good post retirement career as a consultant to AD hiring coaches. Unfortunately, appeasing a fan base is a large part of keeping one's job as an AD. Eichorst for example...he's going to either be a genius for hiring Riley or lose his job over it. That's what he gets for hiring someone he thinks is a great FIT over hiring someone like Dan Mullen.

Wanna talk a tale of two schools and coaching hires? Look at who Rasmussen has hired in all sports, compared to Pederson, Osborne, and Eichorst over the same period.

 

[bilsker]

What a choke job. No way to sugar coat it.

-55% from the line and several missed 1-and-1 front ends.

-Terrible defense in the post. Their centers went 11-12. Not sure why Mac, at some point, wouldn't double the post. I know he didn't want to leave shooters open but conceding 2 points every time the ball went in to the post is not a sound strategy.

-Switching to a 1-3-1 with about 2.5 minutes left was an absolute disaster. Thomas had frustrated Bluiett all day long. Made the switch to zone and BANG...2 threes for him. Dumb decision.

-Thomas blows a lay-up to tie in with about 10 seconds left. Uncontested lay-up.

This game was absolutely given away. Scored 80 (hit free throws and you're talking 85+) at home...you have to win those and now that's 2 games at home where you simply got outscored. 3 home losses total in conference play. Win this game today and you're 4-0 v. butler and Xavier and shoot back up the rankings...but more important you've got a strong hold on the 2 seed for the conf. tourney. Just an absolutely disastrous loss and the fault lies right at the feet of Mac. Love the guy but he's not above questioning. His two big defensive decisions cost CU the game.

 

[bilsker]

Speaking of Altman (as we were previously)...anyone catch what his ducks did to arizona today. Holy moly.

 

[Husker Eponymous]

I was wondering who didn't want the game more as both tried to give it away. Turns out, Creighton didn't want it more

Positive, JP just found out why he shouldn't go pro after this year: abused on defense, shackled on offense

 

[bilsker]

I was wondering who didn't want the game more as both tried to give it away. Turns out, Creighton didn't want it more

Positive, JP just found out why he shouldn't go pro after this year: abused on defense, shackled on offense

With regard to Patton I keep seeing draft positions of 10-13. obviously he's not ready to enter the NBA and kick tail right now. needs a lot more strength. but the team that drafts him is going to know it's not 2017-2018 they are drafting him for.

From a strictly basketball standpoint he should come back. riding the bench and practicing as little as they do in the NBA will mean most of his development will come via individual workouts. I think playing 1,000 minutes in a college season would do more for him. for me the big question is the financial situation. if he and his family need the money now...go. if they can wait a year....wait. the guaranteed money for a top 5 pick is significantly more than for a 12 or 13 pick.

 

[Husker Eponymous]

With regard to Patton I keep seeing draft positions of 10-13. obviously he's not ready to enter the NBA and kick tail right now. needs a lot more strength. but the team that drafts him is going to know it's not 2017-2018 they are drafting him for.

From a strictly basketball standpoint he should come back. riding the bench and practicing as little as they do in the NBA will mean most of his development will come via individual workouts. I think playing 1,000 minutes in a college season would do more for him. for me the big question is the financial situation. if he and his family need the money now...go. if they can wait a year....wait. the guaranteed money for a top 5 pick is significantly more than for a 12 or 13 pick.

This. Love to see him come back and play with Tazz one last year.

Speaking of Tazz, I see him as an NBA defensive specialist. I haven't seen quickness like that defensively since Strickland played. He literally mirrors the opponents shakes and bakes. Unreal muscle response.

 

[bilsker]

39-26 v Depaul at the half. Sluggish start but hitting 60%/55%. Limit turnovers and they should coast to a win. Gotta smack them in the face early in the 2nd and make sure this game doesn't get real. No need to sweat one out against an awful team.