Am I, are we, complacent or realistic?

[ShortSideOption]

I was having a talk with a friend last night, and neither of us could figure out when it came to the state of Nebraska basketball and being ok with giving Miles one more year if we were realistic, or complacent? We talked about how we know Nebraska basketball is terrible, you are most likely getting another guy like Miles if you let him go, he tried a quick fix with transfers which got us to the tournament but that blew up in his face so now he's a little behind the curve because he started "building a roster" in year 3 not year 1 so maybe he does deserve more time?

But on the flip side, what would we have to lose going and trying to find someone like Iowa or Northwestern found? Two different avenues to find a coach, worked for both of them. Both teams were a complete train wreck before those guys got there, one was a mid-major guy working his way up that we haven't been able to get the right guy. The other is a guy with no head coaching experience that they took a gamble on and cashed in big.

Anyways, if Husker fans are ok with another year, are we complacent or realistic? Please discuss because we came to no conclusion and just a massive hangover.

 

[NavyWarrant]

I know I am in the minority, but I say it is realistic. Most people don't want to discuss the reset in year three and just look at it as year five. I have been saying it for years, but for Nebraska to be a good program, it will take some luck. Meaning, the school needs to sign a "name" recruit or have a recruit develop into a superstar. Neither have happened in the history of the school.

I see many people clamoring for Tom Crean as the coach as an "upgrade" over Coach Miles. In 9 years at a big time hoops school, Crean was .438 in conference. How is that a significant improvement over what NU has? If you use the logic he was good at Marquette, then you have to give Miles credit for Colorado St and NDSU.

 

[bilsker]

Both?

I promoted the idea that he should get a 6th year about 3 weeks before the end of the season. Not because I think NU will turn a corner. I don't. I don't think Miles has the chops to be a successful coach at the Big 10 level. I think the 6.4 wins per year in the big 10 (even including for the aberration that was 2013) is what he is. But my logic for year 6 was that that was what the previous guys got and you're sending a message of patience to the next guy.

That said...the fold up job they did at the end of the year was enough to tip the scales in the other direction IMO. It was a pitiful season. NU has better talent than finishing 3-13.

Now....does it matter one way or the other between replacing him now or next year? Probably not. Generally I'm in the camp of "get it over with" at this point. But that wasn't the decision so...so be it.

But what IS the requirement next year? I think it should be firmly stated and firmly held to with no room for excuses. People keep saying "NCAA or bust". I don't believe ANYBODY who says that. The Nebraska basketball mentality will not allow Miles to be fired if he makes the NIT next year. To many that will be a clear sign of progress and to "blow up the program" to start over won't fly. So don't give me that "NCAA or bust" nonsense unless you really mean it. If he's makes the NIT he will be back for a 7th year.

I think too many NU fans think too small. IS NU a blueblood? Of course not. But your goals should always eclipse your past shouldn't they? Especially if your past is one of futility. NU has all they will ever have as far as the tools to compete. They have the money, the facilities, the fan support. Simply no reason not to expect NIT/NCAA every year. Doesn't mean you can't accept the occasional season where neither happens. But that should be the goal. Sticking with Tim Miles tells me that is not your goal....("your" in general...not you, ***). All it tells me is either you couldn't find the replacement you wanted or you simply don't want to deal with it right now.

Basketball SHOULD be a focus of the athletic department. It's a money maker. It's HIGHLY visible. People like basketball. No offense to you baseball people but nobody give a s--- about baseball. Not outside the relatively small cliq that already exists. And NU is never going to really amount to much in baseball...but even if they do...who cares? BASKETBALL....get it figured out or at least never "settle" for sucking.

 

[NUinID]

Realistically NU can and should be better than they are at BBall. Realistically they should be able to finish around .500 in conference every year, which most years will get you into the NCAA tournament and if not that the NIT. Which is great, but I don't see them climbing much above that. Too many things against NU to consistantly be a major power in B1G bball.

The biggest problem is that the state of Nebraska doesn't produce enough B1G talent. If NU could get even 1 solid recruit each year out of the state that would be a huge step towards consistant winning.

The second problem is that I think in most coaches mind Nebraska is a mid-major within a power 5 conference. If you get a coach that could have success for 2-3 years in a row they would be looking to move on to a better program with more tradition and a better recruiting area. I mean do you truely think Collins is staying at NW for the rest of his coaching career? I would not be surprised if he is Duke's HC when Coach K finially hangs it up.

If Miles is let go next year, which way will they go? I would really like to see them go the assistant at a top program route. Give it a try, the mid major route has not worked 3x in a row at that point.

 

[Husker Eponymous]

But what IS the requirement next year? I think it should be firmly stated and firmly held to with no room for excuses. People keep saying "NCAA or bust". I don't believe ANYBODY who says that. The Nebraska basketball mentality will not allow Miles to be fired if he makes the NIT next year. To many that will be a clear sign of progress and to "blow up the program" to start over won't fly. So don't give me that "NCAA or bust" nonsense unless you really mean it. If he's makes the NIT he will be back for a 7th year.
.

This.

Miles makes the NIT and everybody yells "progress". SE is then hamstrung as Miles has the core of his team returning as seniors, no way he fires him.

This was the year to part ways with Miles, not next year. If he fires him after next year, NU is back to the same exact place they were when they hired Miles: New coach, no roster depth, no experience.

 

[bilsker]

Realistically NU can and should be better than they are at BBall. Realistically they should be able to finish around .500 in conference every year, which most years will get you into the NCAA tournament and if not that the NIT. Which is great, but I don't see them climbing much above that. Too many things against NU to consistantly be a major power in B1G bball.

The biggest problem is that the state of Nebraska doesn't produce enough B1G talent. If NU could get even 1 solid recruit each year out of the state that would be a huge step towards consistant winning.

The second problem is that I think in most coaches mind Nebraska is a mid-major within a power 5 conference. If you get a coach that could have success for 2-3 years in a row they would be looking to move on to a better program with more tradition and a better recruiting area. I mean do you truely think Collins is staying at NW for the rest of his coaching career? I would not be surprised if he is Duke's HC when Coach K finially hangs it up.

If Miles is let go next year, which way will they go? I would really like to see them go the assistant at a top program route. Give it a try, the mid major route has not worked 3x in a row at that point.

I'll nitpik your post a little...hey, it's what I do.

I think IF NU ever got to that consistently decent program...NIT/NCAA most years...that you CAN hope to progress from there. But even if not that's a pretty good program and breaking through in the NCAAs would happen on occasion.

The "other coaches view NU as a mid major" isn't really accurate. A mid major is a program with limited budgets, limited fan base, small/dated arenas and facilities and crap conferences. NU isn't handicapped by any of that. Now, coaches may see it as a graveyard but if ONE coach ever gets NU to that regular .500 level in conference then others will see that it can be done. Will you lose a successful coach? Maybe. That would be a good problem to have and in theory he'd be leaving behind a program in good shape....attractive to prospective replacements.

 

[NUinID]

I'll nitpik your post a little...hey, it's what I do.

I think IF NU ever got to that consistently decent program...NIT/NCAA most years...that you CAN hope to progress from there. But even if not that's a pretty good program and breaking through in the NCAAs would happen on occasion.

The "other coaches view NU as a mid major" isn't really accurate. A mid major is a program with limited budgets, limited fan base, small/dated arenas and facilities and crap conferences. NU isn't handicapped by any of that. Now, coaches may see it as a graveyard but if ONE coach ever gets NU to that regular .500 level in conference then others will see that it can be done. Will you lose a successful coach? Maybe. That would be a good problem to have and in theory he'd be leaving behind a program in good shape....attractive to prospective replacements.

I guess when I say mid major I mean in terms of a steppingstone to a better job. It would not be an ending point job. Just like Northwestern in not Chris Collins last job most likely.

 

[bilsker]

I guess when I say mid major I mean in terms of a steppingstone to a better job. It would not be an ending point job. Just like Northwestern in not Chris Collins last job most likely.

True in that sense but if a guy comes here and is successful it's also quite possible he stays a while. Collins probably doesn't leave except for a really big job.

 

[huskernut]

I don't know if Miles should have gotten another year or not. I kind of quit following it closely.

But I never get it when people act like Nebraska can't win games in the tourney or finish in the top half of the B1G because of tradition. In basketball even more than football I think if you get a decent coach he can attract some decent players and have a little success pretty quick. So we have to pay a few extra bucks or some sort of extra sweet-buyout up front to get someone who can do it? It's not like great players will always refuse to come to Lincoln. They're happy to go to school 200 miles south.

If the mission was to contend at the top of the B1G or make the Final Four, I can see reason for pessimism. But to win a game which proves you're in the top 32 teams in the country when you have the resources our athletic dept does? Should be do-able. C'mon.

 

[Rainbow Dash]

Both, but I think it's more complacent than realistic. Men's basketball is our #2 sport and our expectations don't match that. If our football program had 3 years where we didn't make a bowl game, our football coach would be gone. In fact, I'm convinced it would only take 2 years of not going to a bowl for Nebraska to can a coach. Nee got many years but was consistently fielding competitive teams. Collier went 89-91 through 6 years here and we were fully satisfied with him getting a 7th year. Probably should have been fired after his 3rd year, definitely should have been fired after his 5th. Doc got 6 years here. It was hard to fire him after that 2010/2011 season, but based on how he was recruiting and our returning roster, I think it made sense to pull the trigger.

Miles is in a little different situation mainly because he made the NCAA tournament and recruits at a higher level than the previous two Nebraska coaches. Okay, that certainly counts for something, but outside of that 10 game stretch, he's getting the same results as the other guys. Even though we may have better athletes under Miles, it's not like we are watching a bunch of NBA players. The talent isn't so fun to watch that we can forget about the lack of results. I mean if it were Chris Paul and Blake Griffen out there putting on a great show and we were bottom feeders, okay, maybe I could look past the fact that we suck. We do have a couple of nice young players who I believe will have good careers, I don't think there is a single NBA player on our roster though.

I don't think our athletic department has high standards for any of our sports outside of football. Volleyball isn't good because of our athletic department, it's good because we have had two unbelievable coaches spanning decades. Eventually, the law of averages say that Nebraska will luck out and hire a good basketball coach. Nebraska isn't going to shell out big money for a coach, they will always take a shot on someone. You can improve the odds though by casting a wide net and thinking outside the box though. Tim Miles was the only coach that Osborne really tried for, as far as I know. Didn't put out a phone call to Pike, Strick, or Ty Lue? I would have called those three for sure, looking for some insight. Go interview Frank Martin. How about sitting down with Chris Collins types and see what kind of plan they could put together to win here. To Osborne's credit, Miles did seem like he had a pretty good plan. I love Osborne to death and Eichorst seems okay (maybe), but we need to think outside the box a little.

 

[bilsker]

The financial commitment has been made...so on that end I think the athletic dept. has done it's job there. Maybe someone with more in depth knowledge is aware of some areas where bball isn't getting sufficient support?

At that point it becomes a question of WHEN do you fire. If barfneck's info is legit then it's apparent that SE is aware that Miles probably needs to go. But you gotta question why he didn't just rip-off the bandaid. Surely he knows he's not likely to have a guy locked up before firing..right?

Once the decision to fire is made...then you're hoping to get a little lucky. The "mid major" guy is a legit route. NU has just been unlucky there. The "top assistant" route is legit as well but maybe slightly risky in that you are taking a little bit of a leap of faith.

"Paying up" won't get it done. NU can't pay any reasonable amount of money to hire a sure thing. It just doesn't work that way no matter how often people suggest it.

 

[huskernut]

The financial commitment has been made...so on that end I think the athletic dept. has done it's job there. Maybe someone with more in depth knowledge is aware of some areas where bball isn't getting sufficient support?

At that point it becomes a question of WHEN do you fire. If barfneck's info is legit then it's apparent that SE is aware that Miles probably needs to go. But you gotta question why he didn't just rip-off the bandaid. Surely he knows he's not likely to have a guy locked up before firing..right?

Once the decision to fire is made...then you're hoping to get a little lucky. The "mid major" guy is a legit route. NU has just been unlucky there. The "top assistant" route is legit as well but maybe slightly risky in that you are taking a little bit of a leap of faith.

"Paying up" won't get it done. NU can't pay any reasonable amount of money to hire a sure thing. It just doesn't work that way no matter how often people suggest it.

That's good because I was going to pass on donating anyway.

 

[the fountainhead]

I think we are in position to win some games next year and if you believe that then retaining Miles makes complete sense... I was on board with retaining him until the epic meltdown at the end of the year... now I think we should've gotten rid of them

 

[bilsker]

I think we are in position to win some games next year and if you believe that then retaining Miles makes complete sense... I was on board with retaining him until the epic meltdown at the end of the year... now I think we should've gotten rid of them

One think I think is certain...nu will "win some games" next year.

 

[the fountainhead]

One think I think is certain...nu will "win some games" next year.

Not necessarily! Lol...but I was really meaning "many" games