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We’re close...

I was very curious to see how we would’ve done against Wiscy. I think it would’ve been similar to the Iowa game: competitive, but not quite better. We’re close to being as good as them. I think we’re about even with Iowa and NW and beat them both at home next season.
Nope. Not yet.
 
I’d argue that when you inherit upperclassmen linemen who didn’t lift until you got there, you’re looking at 4-5 years before your young o and d line can develop into contender-quality. Strength and strong weight is more important in this conference than any other conference. We have some VERY good young linemen who need to add weight. Corcoran is going to be special alongside Jurgens, Benhardt, and Piper for years to come, with more help on the way. It’s impossible not to see overall improvement on the defense.
There were certainly some bad habits from the previous regime. I'm not sure the lineman completely avoided lifting, but who knows? I agree that we have some good young talent on the offensive line with those you mentioned and Prochaska coming in. That said, we shouldn't be waiting 4 or 5 years to have a decent offensive line.

Very few Power 5 programs allow a coach to have losing records for 4+ years and remain employed. Good coaches seem to have at least some level of success by the third year. You usually see signs in the first year... look no further than what is happening at Rutgers and Michigan St. right now. Neither Schiano nor Tucker walked into situations any better than what Frost did here. I would contend that Rutgers culture was even worse than what we had under Riley.

The defense is probably the least of our problems right now. If you ignore the Illinois game, the case for improvement can be made. I'm not sure we are anywhere near the top half of the conference though in points allowed, yards allowed, 3rd down defense, sacks, or forced turnovers.
 
There were certainly some bad habits from the previous regime. I'm not sure the lineman completely avoided lifting, but who knows? I agree that we have some good young talent on the offensive line with those you mentioned and Prochaska coming in. That said, we shouldn't be waiting 4 or 5 years to have a decent offensive line.

Very few Power 5 programs allow a coach to have losing records for 4+ years and remain employed. Good coaches seem to have at least some level of success by the third year. You usually see signs in the first year... look no further than what is happening at Rutgers and Michigan St. right now. Neither Schiano nor Tucker walked into situations any better than what Frost did here. I would contend that Rutgers culture was even worse than what we had under Riley.

The defense is probably the least of our problems right now. If you ignore the Illinois game, the case for improvement can be made. I'm not sure we are anywhere near the top half of the conference though in points allowed, yards allowed, 3rd down defense, sacks, or forced turnovers.

Yeah, we should have to wait that long for good lines. That's why we were getting our asses handed to us up front in Riley's last year. There were zero strong linemen. JUCO and transfers are always a mixed bag. Frost is doing it the right way knowing he's going to pay the price in the short term.

Rutgers is 2-4 with squeakers over Michigan State and Purdue. Schiano is the real deal though--certainly more seasoned than Frost.
Michigan State is 2-3 with a great win today, but look at what they did losing 49-7 against Iowa and 24-0 against Indiana. They still have OSU and PSU, and I'm guessing those are both Ls. We'll see. There were signs in Frost's first year too. There was also tape out on him for his second year.

I'm making no claims Frost is a great coach on the field, but I think he's a good enough recruiter to make up for his lack of in-game experience with a big boy conference while gaining in-game experience on the job. Year five looks like a favorable schedule for once. If he can't bring a juggernaut into that season and clean up, he should be fired.
 
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This board gets almost unreadable at times, and we are in one of those times. I appreciate this thread with a more even-handed outlook.

We are all disappointed and frustrated. I share that too. And I agree that Scott has made some mistakes. He’s talked too much about needing to get different players immediately after the transition. He has a tendency to abandon “we” talk and say things like, “they” need to understand X or “they” need to do Y when the team has had a bad outcome.

He has made some strategic choices that may or may not be mistakes. He sees Jurgens as a potentially elite player at center. But he’s had better snappers back him up while Cam has single-handedly neutered the offense for stretches by killing the QBs timing or contributing to turnovers. Will we see a polished end product to justify this? If so, Frost‘s decision there may be vindicated.

He’s stuck with a more finesse style offense that is potentially harder for Big 10 defenses to deal with if its manned by speedy athlete’s with sharp quick-thinking QB play. But he’s lacked sufficient skills players with enough knowledge of the system to make it work, and this appears to have slowed some guys from getting on the field, when a simpler scheme might have brought talented young guys on the field in positions to succeed sooner. Will we see a full offensive first team who master the scheme, with enough skill and speed to victimize Big 10 defenses, or will he never get the ”right guys”?

I‘m disappointed we haven’t turned the corner sooner, but I do think this team looks better this year. The record is the record, but the lines on both sides of the ball look more solid than last year. They’re not losing the line of scrimmage as easily as last season. There is more work to do, but the trajectory is better and the starting roster is pretty young. There are strong reasons to expect further improvement.

The linebacker play is improving, and those guys are VERY young. My personal belief is that ILB is the most important position in this defense. I see growth in the defensive scheme where, if I compare it to last year it’s a step forward.

I‘m not as convinced about the play-calling. I wonder if Frost might quietly let Lubick call plays for a couple games. He’s played under great head coaches who decided to delegate that responsibility (to HIM even) so in some ways it’s just another place he can follow that example. How great would it be if he could hire the next Scott Frost type of assistant to serve under him as QB coach or OC? Let a young phenom who can focus on that aspect shine, freeing Frost to demand more precision in the details that seem to be escaping his attention. I think that would be the most effective way to decrease penalties, avoid delay of game penalties or need for timeouts, or mistakes in special teams. There is no substitute for the head coach to have his full attention on the details in a way the players feel the demand for excellence. Frank Beamer used to coach special teams, and Virginia Tech had excellent special teams.

My main thought with all this is that I see youth and growth in this team. They have fight in them, and won’t be on the wrong side of these close games forever. I also have confidence that Frost will make tweaks and adjustments where he needs to. He’s too competitive to lose out of stubborn commitment to mistakes, to keep throwing bad money after good. His willingness to make the change and then the change back at QB shows that he’ll make uncomfortable adjustments.
 
This seems like a good place to stick this in.

I agree with Carriker, but would change 'the future is a dream' until we start executing better than a H.S. team. I too watch the games and wait for the big mistakes, i.e., turnovers, missed receivers, poor tackling, poor execution, penalties that negate big plays, missed big plays/opportunities, lack of offense, etc. We won't turn any corner until we become a much better disciplined team, in all areas of the game. Same mistakes this year as last 3 years. This starts with the coaches; better preparation, better development, better game time decisions, Key recruiting wins. I don't see much changing next year if that discipline doesn't improve significantly. If our O and D lines can't win their battle in the trenches then the team will continue to struggle. I think a good example is former LSU QB; Burrow. If he played at NU, with the players we have now, he would not have won the Heisman or a National championship or conference championship. We probably would have won more games but he wouldn't of had the numbers he did at LSU. HCSF doesn't seem to have the QB, yet, to run the offensive system he wants. Look at next year's schedule. It doesn't look much easier than this year, or previous 3 years. HCSF needs to make some significant improvements, ASAP, to be turning the corner next year! :Sign2cents:

Joe Burrow - Wikipedia
"Burrow was rated as a four-star football recruit, and was the eighth-highest ranked dual-threat quarterback in the class of 2015 according to the 247Sports Composite. "
 



To REGAIN any respect in the world of college football.....you have to play a tough schedule and WIN those games. Remember the "strength of schedule" criteria......you can't recruit "talent" by touting "quality losses".
 
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@huskermike: Could we have gradually built up to the Oregon offense, using the Iowa offense as a base? Good question.

John Wooden said something like: "Sometimes you have to know when you are building a Ferrari, and sometimes you have to know when you are building a Ford." He was talking about his first teams at UCLA, before Kareem and everybody else.

We have a ways to go before we are even a Ford. But I think Scott will figure this out.
Well, he did win with Gail Goodrich and Walt Hazzard but both of them went on to stellar NBA careers-but I like the post and think also.
 
@huskermike: Could we have gradually built up to the Oregon offense, using the Iowa offense as a base? Good question.

John Wooden said something like: "Sometimes you have to know when you are building a Ferrari, and sometimes you have to know when you are building a Ford." He was talking about his first teams at UCLA, before Kareem and everybody else.

We have a ways to go before we are even a Ford. But I think Scott will figure this out.
Yes (maybe not Iowa style but ...) simply because you have to recruit players who fit “that style of offense”. That takes time to get the right players. As there have been numerous discussions on this board about the failings of the critical pieces that where here already or his recruits that haven’t measured up and the attrition of even his recruits. It’s taking a little longer (or rather A LOT longer) with the personnel (especially the skill positions)
if you happened to have watched the UCF offense in frosts magical year you will notice that the execution is amazing compared to his teams at nebraska It’s striking really the difference in the two offenses. And I’m sure he’s had to leave a lot of the offense out at Nebraska because of the lack of execution or talent.
 
This board gets almost unreadable at times, and we are in one of those times. I appreciate this thread with a more even-handed outlook.

We are all disappointed and frustrated. I share that too. And I agree that Scott has made some mistakes. He’s talked too much about needing to get different players immediately after the transition. He has a tendency to abandon “we” talk and say things like, “they” need to understand X or “they” need to do Y when the team has had a bad outcome.

He has made some strategic choices that may or may not be mistakes. He sees Jurgens as a potentially elite player at center. But he’s had better snappers back him up while Cam has single-handedly neutered the offense for stretches by killing the QBs timing or contributing to turnovers. Will we see a polished end product to justify this? If so, Frost‘s decision there may be vindicated.

He’s stuck with a more finesse style offense that is potentially harder for Big 10 defenses to deal with if its manned by speedy athlete’s with sharp quick-thinking QB play. But he’s lacked sufficient skills players with enough knowledge of the system to make it work, and this appears to have slowed some guys from getting on the field, when a simpler scheme might have brought talented young guys on the field in positions to succeed sooner. Will we see a full offensive first team who master the scheme, with enough skill and speed to victimize Big 10 defenses, or will he never get the ”right guys”?

I‘m disappointed we haven’t turned the corner sooner, but I do think this team looks better this year. The record is the record, but the lines on both sides of the ball look more solid than last year. They’re not losing the line of scrimmage as easily as last season. There is more work to do, but the trajectory is better and the starting roster is pretty young. There are strong reasons to expect further improvement.

The linebacker play is improving, and those guys are VERY young. My personal belief is that ILB is the most important position in this defense. I see growth in the defensive scheme where, if I compare it to last year it’s a step forward.

I‘m not as convinced about the play-calling. I wonder if Frost might quietly let Lubick call plays for a couple games. He’s played under great head coaches who decided to delegate that responsibility (to HIM even) so in some ways it’s just another place he can follow that example. How great would it be if he could hire the next Scott Frost type of assistant to serve under him as QB coach or OC? Let a young phenom who can focus on that aspect shine, freeing Frost to demand more precision in the details that seem to be escaping his attention. I think that would be the most effective way to decrease penalties, avoid delay of game penalties or need for timeouts, or mistakes in special teams. There is no substitute for the head coach to have his full attention on the details in a way the players feel the demand for excellence. Frank Beamer used to coach special teams, and Virginia Tech had excellent special teams.

My main thought with all this is that I see youth and growth in this team. They have fight in them, and won’t be on the wrong side of these close games forever. I also have confidence that Frost will make tweaks and adjustments where he needs to. He’s too competitive to lose out of stubborn commitment to mistakes, to keep throwing bad money after good. His willingness to make the change and then the change back at QB shows that he’ll make uncomfortable adjustments.
Exactly!
 



This board gets almost unreadable at times, and we are in one of those times. I appreciate this thread with a more even-handed outlook.

We are all disappointed and frustrated. I share that too. And I agree that Scott has made some mistakes. He’s talked too much about needing to get different players immediately after the transition. He has a tendency to abandon “we” talk and say things like, “they” need to understand X or “they” need to do Y when the team has had a bad outcome.

He has made some strategic choices that may or may not be mistakes. He sees Jurgens as a potentially elite player at center. But he’s had better snappers back him up while Cam has single-handedly neutered the offense for stretches by killing the QBs timing or contributing to turnovers. Will we see a polished end product to justify this? If so, Frost‘s decision there may be vindicated.

He’s stuck with a more finesse style offense that is potentially harder for Big 10 defenses to deal with if its manned by speedy athlete’s with sharp quick-thinking QB play. But he’s lacked sufficient skills players with enough knowledge of the system to make it work, and this appears to have slowed some guys from getting on the field, when a simpler scheme might have brought talented young guys on the field in positions to succeed sooner. Will we see a full offensive first team who master the scheme, with enough skill and speed to victimize Big 10 defenses, or will he never get the ”right guys”?

I‘m disappointed we haven’t turned the corner sooner, but I do think this team looks better this year. The record is the record, but the lines on both sides of the ball look more solid than last year. They’re not losing the line of scrimmage as easily as last season. There is more work to do, but the trajectory is better and the starting roster is pretty young. There are strong reasons to expect further improvement.

The linebacker play is improving, and those guys are VERY young. My personal belief is that ILB is the most important position in this defense. I see growth in the defensive scheme where, if I compare it to last year it’s a step forward.

I‘m not as convinced about the play-calling. I wonder if Frost might quietly let Lubick call plays for a couple games. He’s played under great head coaches who decided to delegate that responsibility (to HIM even) so in some ways it’s just another place he can follow that example. How great would it be if he could hire the next Scott Frost type of assistant to serve under him as QB coach or OC? Let a young phenom who can focus on that aspect shine, freeing Frost to demand more precision in the details that seem to be escaping his attention. I think that would be the most effective way to decrease penalties, avoid delay of game penalties or need for timeouts, or mistakes in special teams. There is no substitute for the head coach to have his full attention on the details in a way the players feel the demand for excellence. Frank Beamer used to coach special teams, and Virginia Tech had excellent special teams.

My main thought with all this is that I see youth and growth in this team. They have fight in them, and won’t be on the wrong side of these close games forever. I also have confidence that Frost will make tweaks and adjustments where he needs to. He’s too competitive to lose out of stubborn commitment to mistakes, to keep throwing bad money after good. His willingness to make the change and then the change back at QB shows that he’ll make uncomfortable adjustments.
Excellent post
 
Yeah, we should have to wait that long for good lines. That's why we were getting our asses handed to us up front in Riley's last year. There were zero strong linemen. JUCO and transfers are always a mixed bag. Frost is doing it the right way knowing he's going to pay the price in the short term.

Rutgers is 2-4 with squeakers over Michigan State and Purdue. Schiano is the real deal though--certainly more seasoned than Frost.
Michigan State is 2-3 with a great win today, but look at what they did losing 49-7 against Iowa and 24-0 against Indiana. They still have OSU and PSU, and I'm guessing those are both Ls. We'll see. There were signs in Frost's first year too. There was also tape out on him for his second year.

I'm making no claims Frost is a great coach on the field, but I think he's a good enough recruiter to make up for his lack of in-game experience with a big boy conference while gaining in-game experience on the job. Year five looks like a favorable schedule for once. If he can't bring a juggernaut into that season and clean up, he should be fired.
If we are talking about having one of the top 3 or 4 lines in the conference and having a few first/second team all-conference players, then I might agree that it takes 5 years to build. If we are talking about a middle-of-the-pack offensive line that should be competent and allow us to have some semblance of a traditional running game, then I don't buy that it is okay to take 5 years for that to happen.

Rutgers also lost one game in triple OT and another on a late FG... they are not that far off from being 3-3 or even 4-2. I think they already lost to tOSU. It will be interesting to see how they do against Penn St. and whoever else they play. What's happened in year 1 of Schiano's second act there is nothing short of remarkable.
 

Well just think, In addition to Ohio State and Michigan, next year we get to play Oklahoma in Norman. Will we win a lot more next year?
 

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