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2019 4* ATH Ty Robinson predictions rolling in


wheat said:
Fair enough. I do think he runs players off, though it's hard to define what "running off" players actually entails. Do they get told they are done? Or is he enough of a hard@$$ to the kids he doesn't want to convince them to go elsewhere? I'm not sure the method really matters, as it allows them to cycle through players, eliminate their evaluation misses and move on to the next class. Their recruiting classes from 2013-2018 have had 26, 24, 24, 24, 29 and 21 players. They do lose a fair number of juniors to the draft, which allows them to increase numbers, but that's a lot of kids they have to make go away to stay at 85, especially for a program that is well-established with their culture firmly in place. I think you could rationally argue that he is not acting unethically but I still don't think I would want my son to play for him.

At the end of the day, part of what I find frustrating is the inequity in the over-signing rules by conference. If the NCAA were remotely functional those rules would be uniform, as it creates competitive imbalance. At the end of the day Saban takes advantage of a set of rules that work to his favor and one could argue that merely makes him competent.

Nick Saban is probably not Satan incarnate but I still hate Bama anyway and, like alabamahusker, my disdain for the Tide precedes Saban. I hated them under Bear Bryant and really didn't like them any better once he was gone, even though they weren't very good.
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My guess is that Saban is pretty blunt and honest with them. That doesn't mean he doesn't care. I think he cares about his players just like any coach does. But if a kid just isn't cutting it for whatever reason, its not wrong to tell him that he may not see the field. Do you think Scott Frost has run off a bunch of players this year? I don't, but I am betting he is honest with them and they are finding for themselves that they probably won't see the field.
 
I think Saban is just a darn good coach who found his perfect niche and has stuck with what works for him. Much Like TO did back in the 90's. I don't begrudge Saban one bit. It just goes to show that it can be done on a continuous basis. I appreciate it, he set the bar high, now its up to the rest of us to go take it.
 
Redfish said:
My guess is that Saban is pretty blunt and honest with them. That doesn't mean he doesn't care. I think he cares about his players just like any coach does. But if a kid just isn't cutting it for whatever reason, its not wrong to tell him that he may not see the field. Do you think Scott Frost has run off a bunch of players this year? I don't, but I am betting he is honest with them and they are finding for themselves that they probably won't see the field.
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That's why it's a fine line. I don't have a problem telling guys their odds of seeing the field are slim. At the same time, Bama has an awful lot of guys leave. It's within the rules, so it's hard to say it's wrong but if a kids wants to stay, knowing he won't play much, that should be his choice as long as he's doing what he is supposed to do in terms of workouts, off-the-field, etc.

In terms of Frost, I have no problem with the departures but I would think the frequency with which that happens will decline as time goes on though, as we all know, attrition happens.
 
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wheat said:
That's why it's a fine line. I don't have a problem telling guys their odds of seeing the field are slim. At the same time, Bama has an awful lot of guys leave. In terms of Frost, I have no problem with the departures but I would think the frequency with which that happens will decline as time goes on though, as we all know, attrition happens.
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Absolutely, because guys leave, why assume that the coach is running them off? Lindsey was one of our most coveted recruits 2 years ago. Did we run him off? Culture, fit, too much change... whatever it is. I'm not believing Saban runs guys off. Attrition even if its a 5 star guy happens.
 
Redfish said:
My guess is that Saban is pretty blunt and honest with them. That doesn't mean he doesn't care. I think he cares about his players just like any coach does. But if a kid just isn't cutting it for whatever reason, its not wrong to tell him that he may not see the field. Do you think Scott Frost has run off a bunch of players this year? I don't, but I am betting he is honest with them and they are finding for themselves that they probably won't see the field.
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Yeah what Saban does goes well beyond being honest with them.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052748703384204575509901468451306
 
Redfish said:
Absolutely, because guys leave, why assume that the coach is running them off? Lindsey was one of our most coveted recruits 2 years ago. Did we run him off? Culture, fit, too much change... whatever it is. I'm not believing Saban runs guys off. Attrition even if its a 5 star guy happens.
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It's the frequency of attrition from an established program. I don't know that Lindsey is a great example. I think you're more likely to see the lack of fit anytime you change coaches. You shouldn't see as much of that once a program is as established as Alabama. I kinda doubt that Saban is that sloppy at evaluating fit for his program and the weeding out is based on whether he thinks he can go get somebody better. If that's happening, then I think it's negative, as the the commitment should run both directions. Bottom line is if the attrition at Alabama would be unchanged under the B1G's oversigning rules, then he's not running guys off. If the degree of attrition would change under a different set of rules, then he is. I have no way of knowing in an empirical sense. I suspect things would be different if he was under the B1G's rules but I can respect your perspective.

This is the Ty Robinson recruiting thread. Maybe we should leave the debate on the ethics of Alabama football to another place and time and let the conversation get back to a guy we all hope is a future Husker.
 
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wheat said:
Fair enough. I do think he runs players off, though it's hard to define what "running off" players actually entails. Do they get told they are done? Or is he enough of a hard@$$ to the kids he doesn't want to convince them to go elsewhere? I'm not sure the method really matters, as it allows them to cycle through players, eliminate their evaluation misses and move on to the next class. Their recruiting classes from 2013-2018 have had 26, 24, 24, 24, 29 and 21 players. They do lose a fair number of juniors to the draft, which allows them to increase numbers, but that's a lot of kids they have to make go away to stay at 85, especially for a program that is well-established with their culture firmly in place. I think you could rationally argue that he is not acting unethically but I still don't think I would want my son to play for him.

At the end of the day, part of what I find frustrating is the inequity in the over-signing rules by conference. If the NCAA were remotely functional those rules would be uniform, as it creates competitive imbalance. At the end of the day Saban takes advantage of a set of rules that work to his favor and one could argue that merely makes him competent.

Nick Saban is probably not Satan incarnate but I still hate Bama anyway and, like alabamahusker, my disdain for the Tide precedes Saban. I hated them under Bear Bryant and really didn't like them any better once he was gone, even though they weren't very good.
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1. Saban "running players off". Do you have egregious examples? Or is it "sorry, you're 4th on the depth chart and new guys are passing you...if you want to play it doesnt look like it will be here" or a guy who has already graduated but wants to stick around and ride the bench for a 5th year?...no...transfer. Personally I hope non-performers are gently nudged out and 5th year guys who have graduated should not be guaranteed a scholarship.

2. The ncaa already has rules. What do you want them to do if a conference decides to have more restrictive rules than the ncaa's? If a conference wants to hamstring its members that's up to them but others don't have any obligation whatsoever to follow suit.
 
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