Locked due to no posts in 60 days. Report 1st post if need unlocked The 30th Anniversary of the 1984 Orange Bowl discussion

[NJHuskerfan603]

I am so happy to be on the board:

It is hard to believe that today is the 30th anniversary of the greatest game ever played. I was a senior attending a NJ high school at the time. I am a lifelong, NJ resident who never went to college in Nebraska. Which makes it a bit weird that I have been a Husker fan for over 30 years.

My memories of this game are so vivid, even some of the commercials! But there is one thing that I have recently found out that the end of the game where Nebraska decided to go for the two-point conversion. According to this "Game Theory" argument, that should have never occurred if Nebraska had gone for a two-point conversion down 31-23.

I can print the argument, but it is a bit long and technical.

In any event, I would love to hear your, personal experiences of the game, and how it translated into you being a fan in later years. No one cares in NJ!! They are just mad that the Giants finished 7-9.

I look forward to hearing from you.

 

[HuskerWeatherman]

Hey Jersey.

Let's see ... I was a freshman in high school. In Lincoln (born and raised, through UNL graduation). I LOVED the '83 team. I remember cutting out every Husker football article I could find in the Lincoln Journal and Omaha World-Herald and posting taping them in my locker. Not much else mattered in life to me beyond Gill, Rozier, Fryar, Steinkuhler, and so on. I was still holding an angry grudge for what happened to us in Happy Valley in '82. So, I pretty much assumed that the greatest offense in the history of college football, combined with the football gods having to balance things out for their mistake in '82, would bring us a guaranteed national championship. And most of the '83 season was "no sweat." Lots of blowouts. Until the Oklahoma game in Norman, IIRC, where Neil Harris needed to tip away a late TD pass attempt to preserve victory. I don't know that many were too concerned with Miami going into the Orange Bowl. They really had zero winning tradition up until that point. As it turned out, it became the start of the evil empire of the South. I watched the game at home, with family. Fortunately, I had the basement to myself (as the rest of my family could not stand to watch a Nebraska game with me, as I was overly emotional, to say the least). I remember Rozier leaving the game injured. Jeff Smith coming in and doing a valient job. The late comeback from Nebraska -- when maybe all seemed lost -- but then again, it really didn't as I still felt like there was no way my Huskers could lose. But it definitely felt more frantic as the 4th quarter progressed. And Smith's last TD with less than a minute remaining (the score that put us within 1) had me jumping up and down over and over, while sprinting all around the house, screaming all the time. And then reality. The two-point conversion. I still feel the pain a bit when I see the replay of the deflected pass from Gill many years later. But that night -- and the next days -- the most devastating pain I've ever endured. Oh, I'm sure it's been exceeded as an adult many times (for "real life stuff"), but that night following the '84 Orange Bowl, I literally cried myself to sleep.

30 years ago. Wow, how depressing.

 

[ColoREDo]

1983 Nebraska didn't play anyone.

 

[Boro Husker]

I was moving to Dallas from Omaha the day after the game, kind of a sucky drive. Flew back to Omaha later that week on the same plane as Dr. Tom who was attending an awards ceremony in Dallas. Pilot came on the intercom and congratulated him for going for two, TO was really looking uncomfortable when that happened. He signed a few autographs and such during the trip as well.

 

[NJHuskerfan603]

This is yours truly with his maternal grandparents attending the Inaugural Kickoff Classic in 1983. Only a 30-mile trip from my house at the time.

 

[GVBlackshirt]

Hey Jersey.

Let's see ... I was a freshman in high school. In Lincoln (born and raised, through UNL graduation). I LOVED the '83 team. I remember cutting out every Husker football article I could find in the Lincoln Journal and Omaha World-Herald and posting taping them in my locker. Not much else mattered in life to me beyond Gill, Rozier, Fryar, Steinkuhler, and so on. I was still holding an angry grudge for what happened to us in Happy Valley in '82. So, I pretty much assumed that the greatest offense in the history of college football, combined with the football gods having to balance things out for their mistake in '82, would bring us a guaranteed national championship. And most of the '83 season was "no sweat." Lots of blowouts. Until the Oklahoma game in Norman, IIRC, where Neil Harris needed to tip away a late TD pass attempt to preserve victory. I don't know that many were too concerned with Miami going into the Orange Bowl. They really had zero winning tradition up until that point. As it turned out, it became the start of the evil empire of the South. I watched the game at home, with family. Fortunately, I had the basement to myself (as the rest of my family could not stand to watch a Nebraska game with me, as I was overly emotional, to say the least). I remember Rozier leaving the game injured. Jeff Smith coming in and doing a valient job. The late comeback from Nebraska -- when maybe all seemed lost -- but then again, it really didn't as I still felt like there was no way my Huskers could lose. But it definitely felt more frantic as the 4th quarter progressed. And Smith's last TD with less than a minute remaining (the score that put us within 2) had me jumping up and down over and over, while sprinting all around the house, screaming all the time. And then reality. The two-point conversion. I still feel the pain a bit when I see the replay of the deflected pass from Gill many years later. But that night -- and the next days -- the most devastating pain I've ever endured. Oh, I'm sure it's been exceeded as an adult many times (for "real life stuff"), but that night following the '84 Orange Bowl, I literally cried myself to sleep.

30 years ago. Wow, how depressing.

Sooo..... What you're saying is: It's been 30 years and you have absolutely no recollection of 1983?

 

[GVBlackshirt]

1983 Nebraska didn't play anyone.

My dad had the same argument at the time. Along with: "He (Ozzy) can't win the big one!"

My argument was: "Look, they're playing Division I schools. If these schools can't field a decent team, that's not our fault! (I was 14 years old!)

I think he was actually glad when we lost that game, because he got prove that he was right and I was wrong about Ozzy and the Huskers.

 

[BigRedOhio]

I was 11 years old and cried like a baby when I went to bed after the loss. I was just learning about the Huskers at that time as my relatives live out in Nebraska. After that loss, I knew I was going to be Husker fan forever!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Greatest Fan of All]

I am so happy to be on the board:

It is hard to believe that today is the 30th anniversary of the greatest game ever played. I was a senior attending a NJ high school at the time. I am a lifelong, NJ resident who never went to college in Nebraska. Which makes it a bit weird that I have been a Husker fan for over 30 years.

My memories of this game are so vivid, even some of the commercials! But there is one thing that I have recently found out that the end of the game where Nebraska decided to go for the two-point conversion. According to this "Game Theory" argument, that should have never occurred if Nebraska had gone for a two-point conversion down 31-23.

I can print the argument, but it is a bit long and technical.

In any event, I would love to hear your, personal experiences of the game, and how it translated into you being a fan in later years. No one cares in NJ!! They are just mad that the Giants finished 7-9.

I look forward to hearing from you.

This has been discussed before.

http://forum.huskermax.com/vbbs/sho...-on-the-1984-Orange-Bowl&highlight=conversion

TO made a strategic blunder by not going for two on the next to last TD. Had he done so, if we make it, we get to kick the extra point on the next TD to win the NC. But, if we missed it, we would have simply gone for two again after the last TD and if we had made it, we would have tied Miami and still won the NC. TO made a poor decision to make everything ride on one play. (NOTE: on top of that, I'm not sure why you don't run the option on that play, we had been getting HUGE chunks of yardage with it the entire 4th quarter as we had worn down the Miami defense. Oh well, that's what legends are made of.)

 

[Husker Country Doc]

My only bone to pick with TO on the two-point conversion was the play-call.

I've seen so many well-designed, successful two-point conversion plays in the intervening 30 years, and after EVERY SINGLE ONE, I think to myself, "Why couldn't Osborne have run that play?"

 

[robroyred]

Hey Jersey.

Let's see ... I was a freshman in high school. In Lincoln (born and raised, through UNL graduation). I LOVED the '83 team. I remember cutting out every Husker football article I could find in the Lincoln Journal and Omaha World-Herald and posting taping them in my locker. Not much else mattered in life to me beyond Gill, Rozier, Fryar, Steinkuhler, and so on. I was still holding an angry grudge for what happened to us in Happy Valley in '82. So, I pretty much assumed that the greatest offense in the history of college football, combined with the football gods having to balance things out for their mistake in '82, would bring us a guaranteed national championship. And most of the '83 season was "no sweat." Lots of blowouts. Until the Oklahoma game in Norman, IIRC, where Neil Harris needed to tip away a late TD pass attempt to preserve victory. I don't know that many were too concerned with Miami going into the Orange Bowl. They really had zero winning tradition up until that point. As it turned out, it became the start of the evil empire of the South. I watched the game at home, with family. Fortunately, I had the basement to myself (as the rest of my family could not stand to watch a Nebraska game with me, as I was overly emotional, to say the least). I remember Rozier leaving the game injured. Jeff Smith coming in and doing a valient job. The late comeback from Nebraska -- when maybe all seemed lost -- but then again, it really didn't as I still felt like there was no way my Huskers could lose. But it definitely felt more frantic as the 4th quarter progressed. And Smith's last TD with less than a minute remaining (the score that put us within 2) had me jumping up and down over and over, while sprinting all around the house, screaming all the time. And then reality. The two-point conversion. I still feel the pain a bit when I see the replay of the deflected pass from Gill many years later. But that night -- and the next days -- the most devastating pain I've ever endured. Oh, I'm sure it's been exceeded as an adult many times (for "real life stuff"), but that night following the '84 Orange Bowl, I literally cried myself to sleep.

30 years ago. Wow, how depressing.

I remember that last score putting us down by one, and we could have kicked the extra point to tie. but Osborne chose to not win the national championship with a tie and went for two. Am I getting old and making up memories?

 

[NJHuskerfan603]

I think this does a better job of summing up the argument. I spent some time on it to make it a little more "digest-able" for those who do not have a lot of expertise in mathematics.


THE KEY OF PARTIAL OR COMPLETE INFORMATION

Life is a partial information game. You attempt to find out as much as you can about people so you can deal with them effectively. In some cases, you get complete information, and that is exactly what Nebraska had when it knew that previously-undefeated Texas had lost 10-9 to a lower-ranked Georgia team in the Cotton Bowl WELL before the start of their game (something like four hours prior). Being in possession of this information is like a poker player competing against an opponent with all of their cards facing up.

This game gave every other team which had a shot at a national championship at least one loss. The only way that Nebraska could not have won the national championship is if they had lost their game against Miami.

Here are some more things to consider: This was the last game of the entire season, both for Nebraska and for all of college football. Certain moves which would not be correct in October may be correct given a different set of conditions. Also, there was no overtime in college football until the start of the 1996 season, so the fact that the game could end in a tie added to this game’s greatness and intrigue.

-----------------

THE STIGMA OF A TIE, OR DR. TOM’S “MATHEMATICAL FOLLY”

Years ago, I heard someone say “a tie is a tie is a tie.” Nothing could be further from the truth.

In fact, there are three kinds of ties/distinct scenarios that could have occurred in this game:

1) Nebraska could have gone for a two-point conversion after the first TD in the 4th quarter and missed it. That would have put them down 31-23. Upon scoring the second TD, they would have been down 31-29. Under these circumstances, there would have been no choice but to go for a two-point conversion. If they had made it, the game is tied 31-31, Nebraska did not “back” into anything, and they are as certain as the sun coming up the next day of winning a National Championship since they would be 12-0-1, and the only unbeaten team in the mix (keep in mind, the voting was done by human beings in two polls: The Associated Press (AP), and the United Press International (UPI)). If the conversion was unsuccessful, they lose the National Championship AND the game 31-29.

2) Same scenario as above, but the two-point conversion is successful, and the score is 31-25. Upon scoring the second TD, the score is now tied 31-31. It would only be necessary to attempt an extra point. Whether or not the attempt succeeds, they have a 13-0 record or 12-0-1 record and take home the “hardware” with virtual certainty.

3) They did what they did and attempt an extra point after the first TD with 6:55 remaining in the game, down 31-24. Upon scoring the second TD at 31-30, Dr. Tom paints himself into a corner, and faces a horrific dilemma: PLAY for the tie, and it has the appearance that you “backed into it,” or risk it all and go for a more risky, two-point conversion. Of course, we all know what happened. They went for the “two” and were not successful, losing the game 31-30.

SO WHAT DID DR. TOM DO WRONG?

1) His methodology with regards to NECESSARILY needing to win the game in order to win a national championship was illogical and flawed given the fact he knew Texas lost.

2) Even if his methodology was flawed (i.e. he felt his team needed to win the game in order to win a national championship), his decision making process in order to achieve that goal was flawed as well.

3) He compounded one mistake with another, more egregious mathematical error by going for a two-point conversion after the extra point was converted on the first touchdown. In essence, he assumed at least 40% more risk than he needed to by not kicking an extra point. That is not trivial.

For those who are familiar with the concept of expected value, or EV, the EV on a two-point conversion for this squad could safely be said to be about one (50% * 2). That's because it is reasonable to say that the success rate of a two-point conversion is analogous to at least a coin flip. Nonetheless, it is far better than the EV of 0.93 they had on converting an extra point (93% * 1). But EV does not apply in this case; only the success rate of winning the national championship does.

----------------

WHAT SHOULD HE HAVE DONE?

The correct play was to go for the two-point conversion AFTER THE FIRST TOUCHDOWN IN THE FOURTH QUARTER regardless of what Coach Osborne felt what was right and honorable.

This decision is not hindsight, and is mutually exclusive to any subsequent score that Miami possibly would have had. When it comes to decision making, sometimes the best decision boils down to the one you DON’T have to make at some, future point. That's because by taking this course of action, there is no end-of-game dilemma.

 

[denisonred]

I was 11 years old and cried like a baby when I went to bed after the loss. I was just learning about the Huskers at that time as my relatives live out in Nebraska. After that loss, I knew I was going to be Husker fan forever!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hell, I was 37 and wanted to cry too. To come from behind like we did only to come up short. One thing that often gets overlooked about this game is the Heisman Trophy winner did not play the entire second half. IMO our offensive line was wearing them down the second half and Rozier would have had a good second half. Jeff Smith was a good back but did not have Rozier's power and explosiveness.

 

[Inflation]

I am so happy to be on the board:

It is hard to believe that today is the 30th anniversary of the greatest game ever played. I was a senior attending a NJ high school at the time. I am a lifelong, NJ resident who never went to college in Nebraska. Which makes it a bit weird that I have been a Husker fan for over 30 years.

My memories of this game are so vivid, even some of the commercials! But there is one thing that I have recently found out that the end of the game where Nebraska decided to go for the two-point conversion. According to this "Game Theory" argument, that should have never occurred if Nebraska had gone for a two-point conversion down 31-23.

I can print the argument, but it is a bit long and technical.

In any event, I would love to hear your, personal experiences of the game, and how it translated into you being a fan in later years. No one cares in NJ!! They are just mad that the Giants finished 7-9.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Not even close. IMO the greatest game was on Nov 25, 1971

 

[NJHuskerfan603]

Rozier left with 25 yards and 147 yards with 2:55 remaining in the third quarter with an ankle injury.

I knew someone who knew Don Criqui, the play-by-play announcer for that game, and I told them to tell him that his call and setup of the Jeff Smith TD was just awesome.