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Thread: '02 Version of Romney Agrees with Obama

  1. #81
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    8% plus unemployment, couple hundred thousand small businesses gone, 1.5% growth, millions of folks losing their homes, fine by what standard?

    Quote Originally Posted by cactusboy View Post
    Private sector is doing fine if you look at the stock market and profits.
    Rich getting richer? is that your standard? I can see why you want to tax them. The United States of America can do so much better.
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  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by gypsyhusker View Post
    8% plus unemployment, couple hundred thousand small businesses gone, 1.5% growth, millions of folks losing their homes, fine by what standard?



    Rich getting richer? is that your standard? I can see why you want to tax them. The United States of America can do so much better.
    I wonder why Obama isn't running on his own economic record, seems he is now running on Clinton's record or at least trying to because the economy is so abysmal and continues to be abysmal under his watch.
    http://news.yahoo.com/obama-now-part...-politics.html
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  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by gypsyhusker View Post
    8% plus unemployment, couple hundred thousand small businesses gone, 1.5% growth, millions of folks losing their homes, fine by what standard?



    Rich getting richer? is that your standard? I can see why you want to tax them. The United States of America can do so much better.
    Many big businesses can hire, they just don't want to. THey cut back and are making larger profits by making fewer people do more. Besides he wasn't talking about private individuals, but private biz. You can nit pick virtually any sound byte a politician makes, but this just isn't anything to get worked up about. I don't even think I've heard the statements made before and after the one quoted...have you?
    "It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his job depends on not understanding it." - Upton Sinclair

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  4. #84
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    In Context: 'The private sector is doing fine'

    Here are excerpts of Obama's remarks:


    "Keep in mind that the private sector has been hiring at a solid pace over the last 27 months. But one of the biggest weaknesses has been state and local governments, which have laid off 450,000 Americans. These are teachers and cops and firefighters. Congress should pass a bill putting them back to work right now, giving help to the states so that those layoffs are not occurring.
    "We've got a couple of sectors in our economy that are still weak. Overall, the private sector has been doing a good job creating jobs. We've seen record profits in the corporate sector. The big challenge we have in our economy right now is state and local government hiring has been going in the wrong direction. You've seen teacher layoffs, police officers, cops, firefighters are being laid off. And the other sector that is still weak has been the construction industry.

    "Those two areas, we've directly addressed with our jobs plan. The problem is that it requires Congress to take action, and we're going to keep pushing them to see if they can move in that direction.

    lots more good context in the link.

    http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...or-doing-fine/
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  5. #85
    Notable quote, "the private sector has been doing a good job creating jobs." I don't think he hates the private sector.

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by cactusboy View Post
    In Context: 'The private sector is doing fine'






    lots more good context in the link.

    http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...or-doing-fine/
    So says someone who has done what in the private sector?
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  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by cactusboy View Post
    Private sector is doing fine if you look at the stock market and profits.
    Employment and new equity investments are nowhere near where they need to be. Our economic future is highly dependent on venture capital, companies IPOing and a reasonable level of risk taking.

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    Quote Originally Posted by huskerator 5000 View Post
    Notable quote, "the private sector has been doing a good job creating jobs." I don't think he hates the private sector.
    He called his time working in the private sector as working behind enemy lines.

    He clearly doesn't look to foster an atmosphere that allows for private sector risk taking. He prefers taxing them at higher rates and funding and promoting public sector projects.

    Our economy should be raging back. Instead we are floundering. He has been wholly ineffective as the leader of the biggest economy on the planet.

    I really find it hard to believe that he has been in office for 4 years and has yet to even solidify a long term tax structure for our country. Somehow he has spent 4 years basically threatening business with tax increases. How does he expect capital to make long term economic bets under such constant uncertainty?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChitownHusker View Post
    You see? This is why it is so ridiculous for you to be running away from President Obama's statements and claiming they were taken out of context. Liberals like you actually believe that government intervention is the way to go. That's fine. Own that position. Conservatives believe otherwise. Conservatives like myself believe in open markets, free trade, and private property rights. This is why the Scott Brown highlights a legitimate difference in opinion about the role of government. You keep saying that Obama is some moderate/conservative. He's not. He is a liberal democrat, and his policies are much different than the New Democrats embodied by President Clinton. As evidenced by his efforts to roll back Clinton's signature achievement of welfare reform.
    ...keep driving that wedge, Chi; is there any way that you could try to paint a more misleading picture? Liberals don't believe in open markets, free trade, and property rights? Please.


    Quote Originally Posted by ChitownHusker View Post
    He is not a New Democrat. He is not a believer in the Clintonian notion that the era of big government is over. He is more of a Roosevelt Democrat. As evidenced by his signature achievements -- the stimulus, the ACA, and Dodd-Frank -- his basic belief is that heightened regulation and government intervention in the marketplace is the way to solve problems. It doesn't mean he is a socialist or a communist. But it does mean that he is a liberal democrat. That should make you happy.
    Well, that would make sense since they are the only two Presidents in history to have to deal with a widespread and crippling depression.


    Quote Originally Posted by huskerator 5000 View Post
    Neither of these guys is a great Satan. Obama likes business leaders plenty. He was just making a point about how government is vital as well.

    Disclosure: right now I'm leaning toward voting Romney, but I voted Obama last time. If it were really the case that Obama hated business leaders, that would make the choice easy for me, but it's not so simple.
    Agreed. The rhetoric is trying to say otherwise, but people with a brain in their head can at least acknowledge the complexity.


    Quote Originally Posted by nems View Post
    He called his time working in the private sector as working behind enemy lines.

    He clearly doesn't look to foster an atmosphere that allows for private sector risk taking. He prefers taxing them at higher rates and funding and promoting public sector projects.


    Our economy should be raging back. Instead we are floundering. He has been wholly ineffective as the leader of the biggest economy on the planet.

    I really find it hard to believe that he has been in office for 4 years and has yet to even solidify a long term tax structure for our country. Somehow he has spent 4 years basically threatening business with tax increases. How does he expect capital to make long term economic bets under such constant uncertainty?
    What an absurd statement. Not one economist would argue that the US economy could come close to anything resembling a "raging" comeback with the global economy in shambles. But keep blaming Obama -- he has obviously had all of the cooperation he has asked for in trying to steer the US back to stable ground. It is, definitely, all his fault.
    "The purpose of argument, should not be victory, but progress." proverb

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    Quote Originally Posted by Husker Mort View Post
    What an absurd statement. Not one economist would argue that the US economy could come close to anything resembling a "raging" comeback with the global economy in shambles. But keep blaming Obama -- he has obviously had all of the cooperation he has asked for in trying to steer the US back to stable ground. It is, definitely, all his fault.
    Yes. It is his fault. He elected to focus his first term on other priorities other than the US economy. With the Democratic party fully in control of the government at a very key time, they did the very minimum and turned their attention away from the economy and to other priorities. They didn't even have the common sense to establish a long term income tax plan, much less get spending under control.

    So the largest economy in the world has floundered. By virtually every measure, this is the worst economic recovery following a recession.

    Even worse, we are now on the downtrend of the cycle. Very poor performance by the Executive branch.

  11. #91
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    The economy would have to grow at a 7.6 percent annualized rate in order to catch up with the average postwar recovery by the end of 2012.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nems View Post
    Again. His priority is growing government. His first term clearly supports that fact. As the country was in a recession, he focused on health care and federal stimulus. He has spent his entire first term promising to increase income taxes on business both big and small. Rather than securing our private sector economy, he has been focused on securing the public sector.

    He doesn't hate business, he just considers public service of greater importance and working for the private sector as being behind enemy lines.
    Quote Originally Posted by nems View Post
    Never said he was extreme. He is simply a government first leader. He is pushing for increased public sector spending. Remember the private sector is doing fine gaffe? His focus is on federal spending in support of more public sector employment. Tax business and high earners to support public sector growth. That is his stated platform.
    Your effort on this thread has been surprisingly weak, nems. Usually your posts are squarely aligned with conservative rhetoric (despite repeated claims of independence), but have some grounding in reality. If you compare Obama's first term with that of Bush, Jr. you would see that one of them was a huge advocate for increasing the size of government and adding employees to the public dole and the other oversaw a trimming of government that caused 450,000+ to find other kinds of work. Reading your posts, it may surprise you to know that it was the Republican who you seem to be describing and the Democrat who has reduced the government payroll.


    Quote Originally Posted by nems View Post
    Yes. It is his fault. He elected to focus his first term on other priorities other than the US economy. With the Democratic party fully in control of the government at a very key time, they did the very minimum and turned their attention away from the economy and to other priorities. They didn't even have the common sense to establish a long term income tax plan, much less get spending under control.

    So the largest economy in the world has floundered. By virtually every measure, this is the worst economic recovery following a recession.

    Even worse, we are now on the downtrend of the cycle. Very poor performance by the Executive branch.
    So, the administration is capable of focusing on just one thing at a time? I don't believe that you an idiot, so you understand the concept of political capital. A President only has so much of it, so they have to focus it on their signature policy that they believe will have the best effect on the country. In addition to SEVERAL economic initiatives, the Obama administration ALSO chose to implement healthcare reform, believing that it was also a potentially crippling economic issue. Your argument fails to acknowledge these realities in favor of regurgitating a talking point (Dem's did nothing to try to improve the economy) that has no grounding in reality.
    "The purpose of argument, should not be victory, but progress." proverb

  13. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Husker Mort View Post
    Your effort on this thread has been surprisingly weak, nems. Usually your posts are squarely aligned with conservative rhetoric (despite repeated claims of independence), but have some grounding in reality. If you compare Obama's first term with that of Bush, Jr. you would see that one of them was a huge advocate for increasing the size of government and adding employees to the public dole and the other oversaw a trimming of government that caused 450,000+ to find other kinds of work. Reading your posts, it may surprise you to know that it was the Republican who you seem to be describing and the Democrat who has reduced the government payroll.
    I'm pretty clearly talking about government spending and Obama's predisposition to government programs versus a focus on spurring private sector growth. I would love to hire more federal workers, but we need way better private sector economic growth to afford it. Focusing on tax increases is ludicrous.

    Quote Originally Posted by Husker Mort View Post
    So, the administration is capable of focusing on just one thing at a time? I don't believe that you an idiot, so you understand the concept of political capital. A President only has so much of it, so they have to focus it on their signature policy that they believe will have the best effect on the country. In addition to SEVERAL economic initiatives, the Obama administration ALSO chose to implement healthcare reform, believing that it was also a potentially crippling economic issue. Your argument fails to acknowledge these realities in favor of regurgitating a talking point (Dem's did nothing to try to improve the economy) that has no grounding in reality.
    You make my point fine. Obama used his political capital to pass health care and failed us on the economy. We are suffering the results of that decision today. If you want to pay for health care, and maintain all these federal programs, the first priority and really only priority should have been the economy and employment. It wasn't. He was fully in control of the legislature and what we have today is due to his leadership. Slowing economy and a renewed push for higher taxes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Husker Mort View Post
    So, the administration is capable of focusing on just one thing at a time? I don't believe that you an idiot, so you understand the concept of political capital. A President only has so much of it, so they have to focus it on their signature policy that they believe will have the best effect on the country. In addition to SEVERAL economic initiatives, the Obama administration ALSO chose to implement healthcare reform, believing that it was also a potentially crippling economic issue. Your argument fails to acknowledge these realities in favor of regurgitating a talking point (Dem's did nothing to try to improve the economy) that has no grounding in reality.
    I don't see anyone "regurgitating a talking point that Dem's did nothing to try to improve the economy." What I do see is conservatives arguing that we don't feel he did enough, nor did he do things which were successful, in terms of improving the economy. We thought that given the recession he was dealing with, more should have been done to motivate and allow private business to hire and expand the economy. Its a matter of degree and a matter of focus and priorities where he should have expended his limited political capital. We simply differ with Obama and Democrats on what those priorities should have been, and what we want them to be in the next four years. Saddling the country with a huge new government entitlement program is not the priority we would choose.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nems View Post
    I'm pretty clearly talking about government spending and Obama's predisposition to government programs versus a focus on spurring private sector growth. I would love to higher more federal workers, but we need way better private sector economic growth to afford it. Focusing on tax increases is ludicrous.

    You make my point fine. Obama used his political capital to pass health care and failed us on the economy. We are suffering the results of that decision today. If you want to pay for health care, and maintain all these federal programs, the first priority and really only priority should have been the economy and employment. It wasn't. He was fully in control of the legislature and what we have today is due to his leadership. Slowing economy and a renewed push for higher taxes.
    "Growing the government" is not the same as increased spending. I agree that spending has to be brought down, but to imply that we can find a trajectory out of the mess without tax increases is, as you say, ludicrous.

    Obama didn't fail anyone on the economy. The President has very little tangible control of the economy and you know that because it would be your party line if it was your guy in office. Despite your claims to the contrary, the Dem's did not have the required 60-vote majority that the Rep's have made mandatory to get anything done in the Senate, but I can respect your desire for more movement in the first two years -- I certainly wanted more. As for the rest:

    What parts of the economic recovery have been slowed or suffered because of ACA?
    What policies did you want to see advanced by the Dem's that you wouldn't have screamed bloody murder about?
    How cooperative has the GOP been on any jobs bills since?

    As for "what we have today" being a result of "his leadership", please spare us all. The last time the economy was humming along was at the end of the Clinton presidency. Since then, we have had a tech bubble burst, the largest domestic attack since the Civil War, a global war on terror that featured two ill-advised and poorly executed wars with simultaneous tax cuts (first time in history that a President had cut taxes during a war), a stock market plunge and near-crash, a housing industry burst, a global economic meltdown, and continued decline of American manufacturing.

    ...but you think this is all because of the last 3 years.
    "The purpose of argument, should not be victory, but progress." proverb

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    Quote Originally Posted by Husker Mort View Post
    "Growing the government" is not the same as increased spending. I agree that spending has to be brought down, but to imply that we can find a trajectory out of the mess without tax increases is, as you say, ludicrous.

    Obama didn't fail anyone on the economy. The President has very little tangible control of the economy and you know that because it would be your party line if it was your guy in office. Despite your claims to the contrary, the Dem's did not have the required 60-vote majority that the Rep's have made mandatory to get anything done in the Senate, but I can respect your desire for more movement in the first two years -- I certainly wanted more. As for the rest:

    What parts of the economic recovery have been slowed or suffered because of ACA?
    What policies did you want to see advanced by the Dem's that you wouldn't have screamed bloody murder about?
    How cooperative has the GOP been on any jobs bills since?

    As for "what we have today" being a result of "his leadership", please spare us all. The last time the economy was humming along was at the end of the Clinton presidency. Since then, we have had a tech bubble burst, the largest domestic attack since the Civil War, a global war on terror that featured two ill-advised and poorly executed wars with simultaneous tax cuts (first time in history that a President had cut taxes during a war), a stock market plunge and near-crash, a housing industry burst, a global economic meltdown, and continued decline of American manufacturing.

    ...but you think this is all because of the last 3 years.
    Sure would be nice if you'd limit your arguments to what people are actually saying, rather than what your flawed clairvoyance is telling you they WOULD say or think.

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    Quote Originally Posted by McKinneyTXHusker View Post
    I don't see anyone "regurgitating a talking point that Dem's did nothing to try to improve the economy." What I do see is conservatives arguing that we don't feel he did enough, nor did he do things which were successful, in terms of improving the economy. We thought that given the recession he was dealing with, more should have been done to motivate and allow private business to hire and expand the economy. Its a matter of degree and a matter of focus and priorities where he should have expended his limited political capital. We simply differ with Obama and Democrats on what those priorities should have been, and what we want them to be in the next four years. Saddling the country with a huge new government entitlement program is not the priority we would choose.
    Thanks for the reasoned response, McK. While we obviously differ on the supposition that ACA is an entitlement program of any kind, can you be more specific about the bolded statement.
    "The purpose of argument, should not be victory, but progress." proverb

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    Quote Originally Posted by McKinneyTXHusker View Post
    Sure would be nice if you'd limit your arguments to what people are actually saying, rather than what your flawed clairvoyance is telling you they WOULD say or think.
    What part of "what we have today is due to his leadership" don't you understand? And here I thought you were trying to be constructive...
    "The purpose of argument, should not be victory, but progress." proverb

  19. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Husker Mort View Post
    ...but you think this is all because of the last 3 years.
    And with the strawman, you're obviously losing again Mort.

    The reason you have to resort to this tactic, is you have no substance in your post.

    In his first term somehow Obama had the ability to pass health care legislation, yet he couldn't put in place a long term tax plan for the country. As a country our government has no long term financial plan and his party can't even put forth and pass a budget.

    The reason our economy is floundering is because the guy in the White House has not been able to lead on the most important subjects. His Admistration has failed on jobs and economy. Yet we do have one of the most controversial pieces of legislation in recent history.

    Now our economy is slipping again. And his answer is to increase taxes on 1% of the country. Because he feels that will get the country moving in the right direction economically. That is the most important thing to Obama. Raising taxes on 1% of the country. If we hire more firefighters and teachers, the economy will turn around is his proposition.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Husker Mort View Post
    Thanks for the reasoned response, McK. While we obviously differ on the supposition that ACA is an entitlement program of any kind, can you be more specific about the bolded statement.
    How can you possibly rationally argue that its not an entitlement program of any kind?!?!?! For starters, please explain how the huge expansion of Medicaid mandated by ACA isn't an entitlement program of any kind? As for specifics of my earlier statement, that's been discussed here many times. For starters, the regulatory atmosphere, and specifically the uncertainty about many regulations the Obama administration is considering, is well documented to be a large drag on private industry, and thus job creation. Dealing with that would be a wonderful start.

    Quote Originally Posted by Husker Mort View Post
    What part of "what we have today is due to his leadership" don't you understand? And here I thought you were trying to be constructive...
    I was, that's why I hate silly statements like:

    Quote Originally Posted by Husker Mort View Post
    The President has very little tangible control of the economy and you know that because it would be your party line if it was your guy in office.
    Make your argument that "the President has very little tangible control of the economy" if you wish, that can be debated. But don't presume to claim that you know that those opposing your point would be agreeing with it if POTUS was Republican. That's not very constructive at all.


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