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Thread: Legality of Iraq War

  1. #31
    Heisman

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    Quote Originally Posted by cactusboy View Post
    The UN and the UN Charter said it was illegal.
    The UN has NOT said its illegal. A UN representative in an interview said "from his point of view" he viewed it as illegal. If its illegal, then let them prosecute it. Until and unless they do, its not proven to be illegal.

    Again, from your own earlier post:

    The UN Security Council, as outlined in Article 39 of the UN Charter, has the ability to rule on the legality of the war, but has yet not been asked by any UN member nation to do so.
    So, to make it perfectly clear, the UN has NOT ruled it to be illegal, notwithstanding what any individual UN member or rep chooses to say in an interview. Interviews are not legal proceedings, I'm sure you understand that.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChitownHusker View Post
    CB, please provide links for your quoted statements.
    I think I fixed it. I posted a quote that I already sourced, which is why I said "from page 1" before the quote. If you're talking about a different post than can you tell me which number post it is?

  3. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by cactusboy View Post
    I think I fixed it. I posted a quote that I already sourced, which is why I said "from page 1" before the quote. If you're talking about a different post than can you tell me which number post it is?
    OK, I missed that. Thanks for providing the links.
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  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by redmachine View Post
    As a permanent member of the group that passed the resolution, we (including England) might actually have more say on how it's enforced. Regardless, the resolutions were there and did not outlaw the action we took in enforcing them.



    From your earlier post:



    The UN hasn't said the Iraq invasion was illegal.
    well maybe one day the UNSC will make a ruling or at least give the US a chance to veto it. Until then I"m just the messenger of

    The then United Nations Secretary-General Kofi Annan said in September 2004 that: "From our point of view and the UN Charter point of view, it [the war] was illegal."[1][2]
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legality_of_the_Iraq_War

    so you have your people that did the "crime" or have a stake in it..and I have the rest. We will have to leave it at that I guess.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by cactusboy View Post
    well maybe one day the UNSC will make a ruling or at least give the US a chance to veto it. Until then I"m just the messenger of...
    Yep, you're just the messenger of "Kofi Annan said in an interview at some point" and that's certainly not enough to justify you saying it was "illegal by definition" and refer to Bush and others as war criminals.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by McKinneyTXHusker View Post
    Yep, you're just the messenger of "Kofi Annan said in an interview at some point" and that's certainly not enough to justify you saying it was "illegal by definition" and refer to Bush and others as war criminals.
    So you can't commit a crime unless your convicted of it?

    Link for your quote?

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by cactusboy View Post
    well maybe one day the UNSC will make a ruling or at least give the US a chance to veto it. Until then I"m just the messenger of

    The then United Nations Secretary-General Kofi Annan said in September 2004 that: "From our point of view and the UN Charter point of view, it [the war] was illegal."[1][2]
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legality_of_the_Iraq_War

    so you have your people that did the "crime" or have a stake in it..and I have the rest. We will have to leave it at that I guess.
    I can live with Kofi Annan's remarks if you can live with the fact that the Iraq invasion was not, by definition, illegal.
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  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by cactusboy View Post
    So you can't commit a crime unless your convicted of it?

    Link for your quote?
    My quote was repeating your earlier quote - you keep referring to "Kofi Annan said in 2004..." Please tell me where that UN charter you keep referring to gives Kofi Annan or anyone else the unilateral ability to make UN rulings all by themselves, without any supporting UN sessions or votes? Answer: It doesn't. And yes, you're innocent until proven guilty - as opposed to the cb system where you're a war criminal "by definition" without the benefit of any trial or legal proceedings.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by redmachine View Post
    I can live with Kofi Annan's remarks if you can live with the fact that the Iraq invasion was not, by definition, illegal.
    No I can't...just because you aren't convicted of something doesn't mean you didn't commit a crime. Goes w/ out say if you think about it.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by McKinneyTXHusker View Post
    And yes, you're innocent until proven guilty - as opposed to the cb system where you're a war criminal "by definition" without the benefit of any trial or legal proceedings.
    It's a good question. What's it called before you're convicted of it? If I murder someone w/ many witnesses and video tape, and then commit suicide, have I not committed a crime? What do you call it then? I would say I committed a crime that I wasn't convicted of.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by cactusboy View Post
    No I can't...just because you aren't convicted of something doesn't mean you didn't commit a crime. Goes w/ out say if you think about it.
    Being convicted or not convicted would assume there was a trial of some sort...there hasn't even been a trial of any kind regarding this.

    I'd say it goes without saying, in that regard, that you can't then "define" something as illegal. Your personal feelings on the issue notwithstanding.
    "The strongest reason for people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." -- (Thomas Jefferson)
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  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by cactusboy View Post
    It's a good question. What's it called before you're convicted of it? If I murder someone w/ many witnesses and video tape, and then commit suicide, have I not committed a crime? What do you call it then? I would say I committed a crime that I wasn't convicted of.
    Not if that murder was justified.
    "The strongest reason for people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." -- (Thomas Jefferson)
    “Make yourselves sheep and the wolves will eat you.” -- (Benjamin Franklin)

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by redmachine View Post
    Being convicted or not convicted would assume there was a trial of some sort...there hasn't even been a trial of any kind regarding this.

    I'd say it goes without saying, in that regard, that you can't then "define" something as illegal. Your personal feelings on the issue notwithstanding.
    I've never said anyone was convicted. I think if enough credible and knowledgeable people agree an act is illegal, then it's probably illegal. By credible I don't mean the people that are accused or their friends/family.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by cactusboy View Post
    I've never said anyone was convicted. I think if enough credible and knowledgeable people agree an act is illegal, then it's probably illegal. By credible I don't mean the people that are accused or their friends/family.
    You called Bush a "war criminal." That's the same as saying he's been convicted. He's not a war criminal because you found a quote from 2004 by Kofi Annan that you agree with. That appears to be about the sum total of your "enough credible and knowledgeable people" at this point.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by redmachine View Post
    Not if that murder was justified.
    Do you mean like self defense? If so then it's not murder. That's why I made the distinction of saying murder. So for discussion's sake we'll go w/ it being murder or even unjustified murder if that's better. I'm not talking about Iraq. Simply that if you can commit a crime even if you were dead before convicted. Again, I would say it's clearly a crime committed but not convicted of.







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