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Thread: Purging Voter Rolls in Florida - Daily Show Analysis

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warhorse View Post
    We have been down this road before in numerous threads. Note Husker Mort was not just referring to photo ID requirements.
    I do agree with you (Warhorse) and Mort that shortening the voting window and such would reduce the number of voters. I only took exception to the photo ID requirement, which after re-reading I didn't make that distinction.

    I have to admit that I am not as knowledgeable as I would like on the photo ID laws that some of the states have - do they require some sort of photocopy to be submitted with advanced ballots?

    I looked up how much a photo id costs in my current state of Texas, where I believe they did pass a voter id law not too long ago...for seniors, it's $6....for indefinitely. For those under 60, it's much more pricey - $16, expiring every 6 years.

    Absolutely. If it means alienating 10-20% of the electorate in order to "protect" against the .0004% of fraud. I am really impressed that you guys maintain such a consistent party line, though.
    Let's assume for a minute that your quote of "0.0004% of fraud" is correct. I would argue one main counterpoint - just because it is not widespread does not mean it isn't impactful. What matters is when there are enough votes pooled in one decisive location. Why would anyone stuff the box on elections where the district is clearly Democrat, or clearly Republican? There is no payoff in that. So for a vast majority of votes throughout the nation, it is unlikely to occur. Where the efforts are focused, is where that activity can actually make a difference.

    Your statement is akin to saying "Because the North Vietnamese have 1% of the training and technology as the US, they will be no problem" or any other military analogy where guerrilla warfare was demonstrated to effectively decimate the "superior" force.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by McKinneyTXHusker View Post
    And why do you think that picture ID and the other things you mentioned address those specific groups? I know a number in both groups, and they have no more difficulty in meeting those requirements than whites who are younger than 65. Are you saying those groups are more likely to commit voting fraud, or what?
    African American churches have traditionally done a group march from Sunday service straight to the polls. That is no longer possible when Sunday early voting was eliminated.
    The other group that utilizes early voting (which was reduced from 14 to 7 days)? Seniors over 65.


    Quote Originally Posted by bilsker View Post
    10-20% of the electorate doesn't have ID? How are you over 18 and not have a photo ID?
    Nope. Several of them do like to vote early, on Sunday, or get registered by a third party (that now has less than 48 hours to file).



    Let's just be clear. Florida may want to have the most secure elections in the country -- but let's not also believe their rhetoric about it not effecting turnout. Fortunately, for the GOP, it will most affect those that least support their agenda.
    “If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it.” Marcus Aurelius

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by twokgrad View Post
    I do agree with you (Warhorse) and Mort that shortening the voting window and such would reduce the number of voters. I only took exception to the photo ID requirement, which after re-reading I didn't make that distinction.

    I have to admit that I am not as knowledgeable as I would like on the photo ID laws that some of the states have - do they require some sort of photocopy to be submitted with advanced ballots?

    I looked up how much a photo id costs in my current state of Texas, where I believe they did pass a voter id law not too long ago...for seniors, it's $6....for indefinitely. For those under 60, it's much more pricey - $16, expiring every 6 years.



    Let's assume for a minute that your quote of "0.0004% of fraud" is correct. I would argue one main counterpoint - just because it is not widespread does not mean it isn't impactful. What matters is when there are enough votes pooled in one decisive location. Why would anyone stuff the box on elections where the district is clearly Democrat, or clearly Republican? There is no payoff in that. So for a vast majority of votes throughout the nation, it is unlikely to occur. Where the efforts are focused, is where that activity can actually make a difference.

    Your statement is akin to saying "Because the North Vietnamese have 1% of the training and technology as the US, they will be no problem" or any other military analogy where guerrilla warfare was demonstrated to effectively decimate the "superior" force.
    Worst. Analogy. Ever.
    “If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it.” Marcus Aurelius

  4. #19
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    Don't forget how they now have to show voter ID in PA even though "the commonwealth has not documented cases of in-person voter fraud..."

    We all know this is only about winning at any cost and not preventing voter fraud. Just as much as we all understand the "southern strategy" was all about winning at any cost.


  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Husker Mort View Post
    A comedic take on a possibly comedic series of legislative acts in Florida:

    http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tu...purge-overkill

    click on share on the daily show clip and copy/paste the embed code.

  6. #21
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    Florida purged more than enough voters from polls in 2000 to allow Bush to win, so they have a history of this. They purged lots of excons from out of state that never should have been and it's rather clear it was no accident. I can find a link/s if wanted.

  7. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Husker Mort View Post
    15.9% African American. 17.4% 65 and older. So, yeah, the voter restriction efforts address at least 10-20% of the Florida electorate.

    http://factfinder2.census.gov/faces/...xhtml?src=bkmk
    Only a small percentage of those demographics do not have photo ID's or the means to get one. While I don't support the shortening of the early voting period, it can't be fairly said that this shortening disnfranchises anyone or even makes it materially more difficult to vote.
    "The distinctive mark of the Christian, today more than ever, must be love for the poor, the weak, the suffering." Pope John Paul II


  8. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by cactusboy View Post
    Florida purged more than enough voters from polls in 2000 to allow Bush to win, so they have a history of this. They purged lots of excons from out of state that never should have been and it's rather clear it was no accident. I can find a link/s if wanted.

    If they committed felonies, then under the Florida constitution their voting rights are withdrawn unless and until they re-apply for the right to vote.
    "The distinctive mark of the Christian, today more than ever, must be love for the poor, the weak, the suffering." Pope John Paul II


  9. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by cactusboy View Post
    Don't forget how they now have to show voter ID in PA even though "the commonwealth has not documented cases of in-person voter fraud..."

    We all know this is only about winning at any cost and not preventing voter fraud. Just as much as we all understand the "southern strategy" was all about winning at any cost.

    I enjoy how in the Citizens United thread you are more than willing to speculate about the massive corporate funding of Super Pacs, because such funding would be difficult to detect, but here you are willing to accept the absence of documented cases of voter fraud, despite the difficult in detecting it, as definitive evidence that voter ID fraud is not a real problem.
    "The distinctive mark of the Christian, today more than ever, must be love for the poor, the weak, the suffering." Pope John Paul II


  10. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Pops View Post
    I think they should allow fetuses to vote since they are equal to all other humans...hey just sayin.
    Great argument Pops! So fetuses can vote, but children 0-18 cannot vote, and then people older than 18 can vote again. Makes total sense!
    "The distinctive mark of the Christian, today more than ever, must be love for the poor, the weak, the suffering." Pope John Paul II


  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChitownHusker View Post
    Great argument Pops! So fetuses can vote, but children 0-18 cannot vote, and then people older than 18 can vote again. Makes total sense!

    Man i'm so sorry your humor button goes off after 8


    I cannot be bought, compromised, detoured, lured away, turned back, deluded, or delayed. I will not flinch in the face of sacrifice, hesitate in the presence of adversity, negotiate at the table of the enemy, ponder at the pool of popularity, or meander in the maze of mediocrity.I wont give up, shut up, let up, until I have stayed up, stored up, prayed up, paid up, and showed up for all wounded children.

  12. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Pops View Post
    Man i'm so sorry your humor button goes off after 8
    I was trying to be funny too! (but obviously failing)
    "The distinctive mark of the Christian, today more than ever, must be love for the poor, the weak, the suffering." Pope John Paul II


  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChitownHusker View Post
    I was trying to be funny too! (but obviously failing)

    Long day brother long day...
    peace


    I cannot be bought, compromised, detoured, lured away, turned back, deluded, or delayed. I will not flinch in the face of sacrifice, hesitate in the presence of adversity, negotiate at the table of the enemy, ponder at the pool of popularity, or meander in the maze of mediocrity.I wont give up, shut up, let up, until I have stayed up, stored up, prayed up, paid up, and showed up for all wounded children.

  14. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Pops View Post
    Long day brother long day...
    peace
    Hope you have a great weekend my friend.
    "The distinctive mark of the Christian, today more than ever, must be love for the poor, the weak, the suffering." Pope John Paul II


  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by bilsker View Post
    10-20% of the electorate doesn't have ID? How are you over 18 and not have a photo ID?
    I know a couple such people.
    Anyone who says this is not about reducing voter turnout among the poor and minorities is being dishonest. In most states, you could probably count the number of illegals who vote on both hands. The model for voter fraud is stuffing ballot boxes, not getting illegals to vote.
    Most of the states doing this are in the Deep South. The same group that used to have poll taxes and literacy tests (which were only administered to black people). They don't believe in a broad based electorate.








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