Obama lies about increasing taxes on everyone?

[Lakewood Husker]

In any event, people who are responsible and do not wish to be free-loaders have it in their power to avoid having their taxes raised by Obama ... all they have to do is what they should have done in the first place, and that is buy health insurance so they won't be in the position of having to force others to pay for their own health care.

Sometimes you amaze me Chi. Where does this anti freedom statement come from? Just like the other day you made an unchallenged and non linked statement that most conservative legal scholars support this decision. Great talking point but can you tell me that for every 100 scholars 51 support the decision ? Who are they ? i listen to Hugh Hewitt (con law professor) every day and he was dumbfounded by the decision legally although he feels politically it will help Romney.

Lastly is an 18 year old who works and decides not to buy insurance and uses his saved money to either save or invest and never uses medical services a freeloader ? That is an unfair and quite frankly silly assessment. I would submit that if a 20 year old or a 22 year old who saves or invests his money is making a better investment than paying health insurance for something he likely will never need. And if he does visit the emergency room he can pay his bill like any other bill for service he may incur.

Also not always talked about is the fact workers are often covered for almost 8 hours a day for work comp insurance should they be injured while in course and scope.

[Lakewood Husker]

POY candidate....

POY candidate because for some reason his posts are becoming increasingly towards your political philosophy.

[cm husker]

Sometimes you amaze me Chi. Where does this anti freedom statement come from? Just like the other day you made an unchallenged and non linked statement that most conservative legal scholars support this decision. Great talking point but can you tell me that for every 100 scholars 51 support the decision ? Who are they ? i listen to Hugh Hewitt (con law professor) every day and he was dumbfounded by the decision legally although he feels politically it will help Romney.

Lastly is an 18 year old who works and decides not to buy insurance and uses his saved money to either save or invest and never uses medical services a freeloader ? That is an unfair and quite frankly silly assessment. I would submit that if a 20 year old or a 22 year old who saves or invests his money is making a better investment than paying health insurance for something he likely will never need. And if he does visit the emergency room he can pay his bill like any other bill for service he may incur.

Also not always talked about is the fact workers are often covered for almost 8 hours a day for work comp insurance should they be injured while in course and scope.

Statistically speaking, yes, they absolutely are. Not each one individually, but a percentage of that group will need the rest of us to pay for their medical treatment. Those specific individuals can't be known ahead of time, so it makes FAR more sense to require them all to buy insurance now than wait until we have to pay for them ourselves.

And your notion that these kids can afford the medical treatment on a case by case basis is just absurd when those costs can run in the tens of thousands quite easily.

[Red Reign]

Nope just common sense....so I stand behind it as a POY...and will push it as such when the vote comes up at the end of the year...

As for my political philosphy....I'm a realist and don't march lock stock and barrel with any party or ideolgical belief....I learned that being exposed to alot of good folks from all walks of life in the military and my dad who was a moderate Republican.....such as my friend Col Paul Cook (Colonel USMC retired) a Republican who I voted for in the primary on 5 June because he expouse's my values as a moderate Republican (which we need more of by the way in both parties)...I think for myself and make reasoned and well researched decisions before I vote....and no party or politican has my vote...they have to earn it....which is why I am an Independent....so FWIW you really don't know me or what my politcal philosphy is....

As for Chi and I we agree on somethings and disagree on alot when it comes to politics....but we are friends who respect each other because we are both free thinkers....and I respect that in him...and trying to label him because he doesn't fit what you think is a true Republican I don't find real attractive or a winning conversation...and is what is wrong with this country today...

Loyalty is nice but blind loyalty to any ideologcial belief will never lead to anything good....just sayin'

Trying to define him as a RINO is nice....but its not working....I've never dug any sort of litmus test or a purity scale of a person to belong to any orgnaization....just my 2cents...

POY candidate because for some reason his posts are becoming increasingly towards your political philosophy.

[OmaHusker]

Is it not true that while the President was promising he wouldn't raise taxes for Obamacare, his lawyers were arguing in court that it was a tax?

[cm husker]

Is it not true that while the President was promising he wouldn't raise taxes for Obamacare, his lawyers were arguing in court that it was a tax?

No, that's not true, at least in terms of timing.

[OmaHusker]

Lastly is an 18 year old who works and decides not to buy insurance and uses his saved money to either save or invest and never uses medical services a freeloader ?

Statistically speaking, yes, they absolutely are.

It saddens me to see statistics replace liberty as the cornerstone of our republic.

[OmaHusker]

No, that's not true, at least in terms of timing.

Do you believe the administration contriving a legal defense based on the issue of taxes at the same time Obama was telling us to read his lips?

[cm husker]

It saddens me to see statistics replace liberty as the cornerstone of our republic.

HAHAHAHAHA.

This hyperbole is just that funny.

Hey, by the way, as an ardent libertarian, are you willing to legal drugs yet? Freedoms and all that, right?

[cm husker]

Do you believe the administration contriving a legal defense based on the issue of taxes at the same time Obama was telling us to read his lips?

When did the president say to read his lips? Wasn't it during the election campaign?

I hope that football helmet is made out tinfoil...

Plus, what is ignored is that all these taxes in the health bill (of which no one seems to be able to produce a coherent list) were there before the SCOTUS ruling or any actions in courts.

People against Obamacare were making the tax argument back when it was debated in Congress.

This isn't a new line of attack.

[OmaHusker]

HAHAHAHAHA.

This hyperbole is just that funny.

Hey, by the way, as an ardent libertarian, are you willing to legal drugs yet? Freedoms and all that, right?

I am conservative, not libertarian. But to be honest, I have question and do question my position on legalization of drugs but I can't get past the fact that recreational drug use is so self-destructive and devastating to those in the user's circle that it's reasonable to prohibit them.

[ChitownHusker]

Lastly is an 18 year old who works and decides not to buy insurance and uses his saved money to either save or invest and never uses medical services a freeloader ?

He is if he is in a car accident. If he is diagnosed with cancer. If he has an undiagnosed heart condition and requires a transplant. The fact is, an 18 year old now has a number of options to obtain insurance affordably. If he elects not to do so, it is the essence of irresponsibility.

I know you think this makes me a RINO. All it does is make me a Republican who kept the Republican position after it became unpopular to do so because Obama adopted it.

[ChitownHusker]

POY candidate because for some reason his posts are becoming increasingly towards your political philosophy.

Absolutely false. I just think for myself and don't categorically adopt the party line, and that for some reason offends you. To which I say, too bad.

[redmachine]

HAHAHAHAHA.

This hyperbole is just that funny.

Hey, by the way, as an ardent libertarian, are you willing to legal drugs yet? Freedoms and all that, right?

At which point does it not become hyperbole?

Kind of hard to say that a little bit of liberty hasn't been removed with this tax/mandate. Is it better that a little liberty be taken at a time, or should it be taken all at once?

[cm husker]

Kind of hard to say that a little bit of liberty hasn't been removed with this tax/mandate. Is it better that a little liberty be taken at a time, or should it be taken all at once?

A. It's quite easy to argue that this legislation doesn't impugn liberty, without even agree that it's an intelligent solution to a national problem.

B. This whole ultralibercon sentiment about the creeping oppressiveness of government is all very interesting with its orwellian overtones (how ironic, by the way), but such statements about our liberty being eroded by any and all regulations don't provide much guidance on what we can do to address national problems.

This is similar to the whole action versus inaction debate a few on here want to beat to death. Are societal impositions really more palatable if one can, for instance, "just not drive" or "just not fly" or just not do X thing that is basically essential to living in the economy today? Of course not. It's a false distinction that some rigid ultralibercons want to advance in the face of reason.

[redmachine]

A. It's quite easy to argue that this legislation doesn't impugn liberty, without even agree that it's an intelligent solution to a national problem.

B. This whole ultralibercon sentiment about the creeping oppressiveness of government is all very interesting with its orwellian overtones (how ironic, by the way), but such statements about our liberty being eroded by any and all regulations don't provide much guidance on what we can do to address national problems.

This is similar to the whole action versus inaction debate a few on here want to beat to death. Are societal impositions really more palatable if one can, for instance, "just not drive" or "just not fly" or just not do X thing that is basically essential to living in the economy today? Of course not. It's a false distinction that some rigid ultralibercons want to advance in the face of reason.

I'd claim that some of our national problems have risen out of oppressive/overwhelming government and a return to a people less dependent on that government will solve those problems.

Forcing a tax on anyone, good or bad, is against the principles of liberty.

[cm husker]

I'd claim that some of our national problems have risen out of oppressive/overwhelming government and a return to a people less dependent on that government will solve those problems.

What problems and when did they start?

Forcing a tax on anyone, good or bad, is against the principles of liberty.

Even if it is a tax that makes the person internalize the cost of the actions they are taking or are bound to take? For instance, would a toll bridge fee (i.e. a tax) be against the principles of liberty?

[huskernut]

POY candidate because for some reason his posts are becoming increasingly towards your political philosophy.

You want he should nominate one of yours?

[redmachine]

What problems and when did they start?

The debt crisis for one.

Even if it is a tax that makes the person internalize the cost of the actions they are taking or are bound to take? For instance, would a toll bridge fee (i.e. a tax) be against the principles of liberty?

If I drive over a certain bridge that has a toll, then I pay for it. If I decide I don't wish to pay that tax, I find another way to cross. If there is no other way to cross, then I don't cross.

If I choose not to pay for healthcare, then I get NO healthcare. It is my choice. Freedom of choice is liberty. Take away choice and liberty has been weakened.

[cm husker]

The debt crisis for one.

Do you believe there is a debt crisis in America today? A private or public debt crisis?

If I drive over a certain bridge that has a toll, then I pay for it. If I decide I don't wish to pay that tax, I find another way to cross. If there is no other way to cross, then I don't cross.

If I choose not to pay for healthcare, then I get NO healthcare. It is my choice. Freedom of choice is liberty. Take away choice and liberty has been weakened.

Except, as we've outlined a hundred times, you may believe on Day 1 that you won't want healthcare, but on Day 50, when you are injured at the scene of an accident and put in a coma, you do receive healthcare. Or another example, you develop a painful disease/condition that is treatable. Or, maybe a disease that is treatable but fatal if untreated. In both of those cases, you may be changing your tune pretty quickly. You may claim otherwise on Day 1, but when you are facing death, you'll likely pull the human move and reconsider.

We, as a society, need to plan for that eventuality.

By the way, where do you come down on drug legalization?