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Thread: Court: No automatic life without parole for kids

  1. #21
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    This quotes children what age is that suggesting below 18? or below 13? If we are talking children IMO that is below 12yrs of age, and I would agree with what is said as they may not fully be aware of everything going on around them. If we are talking 13 and up I would venture to say today's teenagers know exactly what they are doing, how they are going to do it, and when they are going to do it. I was pretty naive as a teenager, but I knew what was going on around me and what other classmates were doing, I just don't believe the cop out of saying I didn't know what was going on. In the original scenario the shooter knew what was going on, he knew when he was going to rob the video store, he knew he was going to carry a gun, he knew that if a situation arose he was going to use the gun.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by ShuckIt View Post
    This quotes children what age is that suggesting below 18? or below 13? If we are talking children IMO that is below 12yrs of age, and I would agree with what is said as they may not fully be aware of everything going on around them. If we are talking 13 and up I would venture to say today's teenagers know exactly what they are doing, how they are going to do it, and when they are going to do it. I was pretty naive as a teenager, but I knew what was going on around me and what other classmates were doing, I just don't believe the cop out of saying I didn't know what was going on. In the original scenario the shooter knew what was going on, he knew when he was going to rob the video store, he knew he was going to carry a gun, he knew that if a situation arose he was going to use the gun.
    Nobody is saying that these teenagers didn't know what was going on. What scientists are saying is they lack the ability to fully appreciate the consequences of their actions. That is why the age for being tried as an adult is 18, and between 13 and 18 the prosecutor has to show special circumstances that justify charging as an adult rather than as a juvenile.

    Are you saying we should allow kids age 13 and up to drive, vote, drink alcohol, sign contracts, live independently, get jobs and enlist for the military? Because if your position is that they have an equal (or better) ability than adults to plan their actions, then there is no reason not to let kids do all of these things.
    "The distinctive mark of the Christian, today more than ever, must be love for the poor, the weak, the suffering." Pope John Paul II


  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChitownHusker View Post
    I think that's nonsense. Did you not do some incredibly stupid things when you were a young teenager? Things you look back on and just shake your head at how immature and reckless you were? I know I did, and most people I know are guilty of mind-boggling stupidity as teenagers. The fact is, young teenagers lack the maturity, impulse-control, wisdom, and ability to resist peer pressure that adults have. And I say that's a fact because it is supported by sound neurological and behavioral science. Your anecdotal statements about "kids these days" lack any scientific basis.

    We already have the ability to charge young people as adults based on the facts of the case. Because there is sound science establishing that young teens do not have the same ability to understand the consequences of their actions as adults do, that science should be taken into account at the sentencing stage rather than simply throwing the young kids in jail and throwing away the key.
    I did but none of them involved robbing and killing people, I just believe peer pressure is a lame excuse, if anyone walks into a place to rob it they know that isn't right thing to do I don't care how old you are.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChitownHusker View Post
    Nobody is saying that these teenagers didn't know what was going on. What scientists are saying is they lack the ability to fully appreciate the consequences of their actions. That is why the age for being tried as an adult is 18, and between 13 and 18 the prosecutor has to show special circumstances that justify charging as an adult rather than as a juvenile.

    Are you saying we should allow kids age 13 and up to drive, vote, drink alcohol, sign contracts, live independently, get jobs and enlist for the military? Because if your position is that they have an equal (or better) ability than adults to plan their actions, then there is no reason not to let kids do all of these things.
    I agree with what you say here, I just have little tolerance for any aged person no matter their "situations" who walks into a place and kills somebody as long as they were the trigger person, if not then I agree with alot of what you have said which they shouldn't be up for a life sentence as was the case in the initial example. Would your stance be the same if this video store clerk was your wife? I always try to put myself in the victims shoes, and my answer always comes back as I don't want to see that person in the real world again.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by ShuckIt View Post
    I agree with what you say here, I just have little tolerance for any aged person no matter their "situations" who walks into a place and kills somebody as long as they were the trigger person, if not then I agree with alot of what you have said which they shouldn't be up for a life sentence as was the case in the initial example. Would your stance be the same if this video store clerk was your wife? I always try to put myself in the victims shoes, and my answer always comes back as I don't want to see that person in the real world again.
    Yes, my answer would be the same if the victim was my wife. Nobody is saying that juveniles can't be tried as adults, and nobody is saying that they can't be sentenced to life in prison without parole. All that the Supreme Court held is that a sentencing judge can't be required by law automatically to sentence kids to life without parole; that they instead have to look at the specific facts and circumstances.

    If a horrible crime was committed against someone in my family, the impulse to want vengeance would likely be overwhelming. It would be my goal to overcome this impulse and instead seek justice, so that someday I might be able to forgive.
    "The distinctive mark of the Christian, today more than ever, must be love for the poor, the weak, the suffering." Pope John Paul II


  6. #26
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    What scientists are saying is they lack the ability to fully appreciate the consequences of their actions.
    I would like to see this as a question on a test with a multiple choice answer presented to all middle school kids.
    If you walk into a store and shoot and kill the clerk working what do you think the consequences would be:
    A) Nothing.
    B) Clerk is dead and you would be arrested for murder.

    If our middle school students choose A our parents and teachers are failing miserably.

  7. #27
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    Court: No automatic life without parole for kids

    Did you ever speed when you drove as a teen with other teens in the car?


    Born a Nebraskan, raised a Nebraskan, will die a Nebraskan!! Go Big Red!



    Men of Israel, consider carefully what you intend to do to these men. Some time ago Theudas appeared, claiming to be somebody, and about four hundred men rallied to him. He was killed, all his followers were dispersed, and it all came to nothing. After him, Judas the Galilean appeared in the days of the census and led a band of people in revolt. He too was killed, and all his followers were scattered. Therefore, in the present case I advise you: Leave these men alone! Let them go! For if their purpose or activity is of human origin, it will fail. But if it is from God, you will not be able to stop these men; you will only find yourselves fighting against God.” - Gamalie the Pharisee - Addressing the Sanhedrin regarding the new group called Christians
    "I support collecting more in taxes from people with high incomes who choose to actually pay taxes at lower tax rates than use lawyers and accountants to avoid taxes at higher tax rates," he wrote. "Some tax revenues at low tax rates is a heckuva lot better than no tax revenues at high tax rates." - Art Laffer (on 999 plan)


  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huskermedic View Post
    Did you ever speed when you drove as a teen with other teens in the car?
    Not excessive speed, as I knew if I got a ticket my car was gone until I was on my own.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShuckIt View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Huskermedic View Post
    Did you ever speed when you drove as a teen with other teens in the car?
    Not excessive speed, as I knew if I got a ticket my car was gone until I was on my own.
    So you are fine with mandatory life sentence for a 16 year old driver who was going ten over and lost control of the car and killed two people in the car?


    Born a Nebraskan, raised a Nebraskan, will die a Nebraskan!! Go Big Red!



    Men of Israel, consider carefully what you intend to do to these men. Some time ago Theudas appeared, claiming to be somebody, and about four hundred men rallied to him. He was killed, all his followers were dispersed, and it all came to nothing. After him, Judas the Galilean appeared in the days of the census and led a band of people in revolt. He too was killed, and all his followers were scattered. Therefore, in the present case I advise you: Leave these men alone! Let them go! For if their purpose or activity is of human origin, it will fail. But if it is from God, you will not be able to stop these men; you will only find yourselves fighting against God.” - Gamalie the Pharisee - Addressing the Sanhedrin regarding the new group called Christians
    "I support collecting more in taxes from people with high incomes who choose to actually pay taxes at lower tax rates than use lawyers and accountants to avoid taxes at higher tax rates," he wrote. "Some tax revenues at low tax rates is a heckuva lot better than no tax revenues at high tax rates." - Art Laffer (on 999 plan)


  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huskermedic View Post
    So you are fine with mandatory life sentence for a 16 year old driver who was going ten over and lost control of the car and killed two people in the car?
    Not in an accident situation, if you could prove that the 16yr old purposely plowed in the car and meant to cause harm then yes I would be okay with life sentences.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShuckIt View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Huskermedic View Post
    So you are fine with mandatory life sentence for a 16 year old driver who was going ten over and lost control of the car and killed two people in the car?
    Not in an accident situation, if you could prove that the 16yr old purposely plowed in the car and meant to cause harm then yes I would be okay with life sentences.
    Then the SCOTUS got it right then.

    The kid was speeding around hair pin turns to show off for the 16 and 17 year old girls in the back seat. They are the dead ones.

    Lucky for me I was not on duty and did not have to cut them out of the car.


    Born a Nebraskan, raised a Nebraskan, will die a Nebraskan!! Go Big Red!



    Men of Israel, consider carefully what you intend to do to these men. Some time ago Theudas appeared, claiming to be somebody, and about four hundred men rallied to him. He was killed, all his followers were dispersed, and it all came to nothing. After him, Judas the Galilean appeared in the days of the census and led a band of people in revolt. He too was killed, and all his followers were scattered. Therefore, in the present case I advise you: Leave these men alone! Let them go! For if their purpose or activity is of human origin, it will fail. But if it is from God, you will not be able to stop these men; you will only find yourselves fighting against God.” - Gamalie the Pharisee - Addressing the Sanhedrin regarding the new group called Christians
    "I support collecting more in taxes from people with high incomes who choose to actually pay taxes at lower tax rates than use lawyers and accountants to avoid taxes at higher tax rates," he wrote. "Some tax revenues at low tax rates is a heckuva lot better than no tax revenues at high tax rates." - Art Laffer (on 999 plan)


  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huskermedic View Post
    Then the SCOTUS got it right then.

    The kid was speeding around hair pin turns to show off for the 16 and 17 year old girls in the back seat. They are the dead ones.

    Lucky for me I was not on duty and did not have to cut them out of the car.
    Yeah my original thoughts on the ruling were incorrect as I don't believe mandatory life sentences should be the only option. I was originally thinking that it was saying that a life sentence was no longer option no matter what, that I read incorrectly, I think we are on the same page as far as the ruling. I think we just have differing opinions possibly on what offenses would be eligible for a life sentence which is always just going to be an individual opinion.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShuckIt View Post
    Yeah my original thoughts on the ruling were incorrect as I don't believe mandatory life sentences should be the only option. I was originally thinking that it was saying that a life sentence was no longer option no matter what, that I read incorrectly, I think we are on the same page as far as the ruling. I think we just have differing opinions possibly on what offenses would be eligible for a life sentence which is always just going to be an individual opinion.
    I think we are on the same page on what offenses are. I don't think we should limit a judge at all in what they can do except death. Other then that if the judge feels the crime deserve life the judge can hand it down. If the defendant feels it is too much they can appeal. Why do I think that?

    Jonesboro AK, the kids shot and killed some kids and an adult. The mandatory sentence prevented the kids from being in jail after 21 years of age. To me that is a negative to mandatory sentencing. If you look at Mitchell, after he got out he committed other crimes and is back in jail.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitchel..._Andrew_Golden

    If I was the judge and could have done what ever I wanted with that case both of them would have received life with the possibility of prole.

    I don't see why we put hand cuffs on judges on what they can or can not do with sentencing.


    Born a Nebraskan, raised a Nebraskan, will die a Nebraskan!! Go Big Red!



    Men of Israel, consider carefully what you intend to do to these men. Some time ago Theudas appeared, claiming to be somebody, and about four hundred men rallied to him. He was killed, all his followers were dispersed, and it all came to nothing. After him, Judas the Galilean appeared in the days of the census and led a band of people in revolt. He too was killed, and all his followers were scattered. Therefore, in the present case I advise you: Leave these men alone! Let them go! For if their purpose or activity is of human origin, it will fail. But if it is from God, you will not be able to stop these men; you will only find yourselves fighting against God.” - Gamalie the Pharisee - Addressing the Sanhedrin regarding the new group called Christians
    "I support collecting more in taxes from people with high incomes who choose to actually pay taxes at lower tax rates than use lawyers and accountants to avoid taxes at higher tax rates," he wrote. "Some tax revenues at low tax rates is a heckuva lot better than no tax revenues at high tax rates." - Art Laffer (on 999 plan)


  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huskermedic View Post
    I don't see why we put hand cuffs on judges on what they can or can not do with sentencing.
    Because some judges are idiots. IIRC, there was a rash of new mandatory sentence laws put in place a few years ago because hard-core criminals were getting very light sentences and committing murder. Had proper sentencing taken place, they'd never have been out on the street and someone would have lived.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by OmaHusker View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Huskermedic View Post
    I don't see why we put hand cuffs on judges on what they can or can not do with sentencing.
    Because some judges are idiots. IIRC, there was a rash of new mandatory sentence laws put in place a few years ago because hard-core criminals were getting very light sentences and committing murder. Had proper sentencing taken place, they'd never have been out on the street and someone would have lived.
    That is a great example of over legislating and not letting the system take care of the problem. Get rid of the judge if they do that.

    What about the Jonesboro case? Same kind of example just the other direction? Stupid legislating?


    Born a Nebraskan, raised a Nebraskan, will die a Nebraskan!! Go Big Red!



    Men of Israel, consider carefully what you intend to do to these men. Some time ago Theudas appeared, claiming to be somebody, and about four hundred men rallied to him. He was killed, all his followers were dispersed, and it all came to nothing. After him, Judas the Galilean appeared in the days of the census and led a band of people in revolt. He too was killed, and all his followers were scattered. Therefore, in the present case I advise you: Leave these men alone! Let them go! For if their purpose or activity is of human origin, it will fail. But if it is from God, you will not be able to stop these men; you will only find yourselves fighting against God.” - Gamalie the Pharisee - Addressing the Sanhedrin regarding the new group called Christians
    "I support collecting more in taxes from people with high incomes who choose to actually pay taxes at lower tax rates than use lawyers and accountants to avoid taxes at higher tax rates," he wrote. "Some tax revenues at low tax rates is a heckuva lot better than no tax revenues at high tax rates." - Art Laffer (on 999 plan)



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