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Thread: Ron Brown issue/discussion wonderfully articulated...

  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by OmaHusker View Post
    Take your blinders off people. davey is not comparing pedophiles to homosexuals. He's contending the statement that no group should be discriminated against. Agree or disagree with that but don't get on his case because you come to the table predisposed to voice your anti-homophobia.
    Take yours off.

    The comparison was bogus, and made with a heinous crime.

    Complete BS.

    Yes -- ANY group engaged in activity that's legal should not be discriminated against. Do you really need it spelled out that clearly?

    No, you don't. Yours and Daveys posts were disingenuous at best, and I won't say what they could be at worst.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChitownHusker View Post
    I think that would make the vast pro-cannibalism movement in this country very happy. I mean, there really are so many people out there just waiting to be fried up and served with chips, if only the law would allow it. If we outlaw discrimination against gays, next in line is the legalization of pedophilia and cannibalism.
    I'm sorry you've stooped to smart aleck responses. Out.

  3. #63
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    And just when i thought this topic was dead round 3 or 4 or 5, I forget where we're at.

    "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." -Carl Sagan


  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by OmaHusker View Post
    I'm sorry you've stooped to smart aleck responses. Out.
    Just for the record, if you want to be eaten by a cannibal I am ok with that.

    "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." -Carl Sagan


  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by hskrdavey View Post
    Nope Sorry RP. Guess it was more of a gut reaction since most Left Wingers immediately move to the "Your a Homophobe" or "Your just scared of homosexuals...??" when you disagree with them on this subject... Typically that's how it works. So thought I'd beat them to the punch... (and I noticed I just made the post in time....(CM's "What do you fear when it come to homosexuals>....)
    Well cm is correct to ask you that. You are the one that stated "we are headed down the wrong road". What's "wrong" with homosexuality? Also, as an FYI, CM Husker is a raging conservative! Aren't ya cm!

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by RedBlack&Blue View Post
    Ignorant post. Just plain ignorant.

    If you can't distinguish between a crime against a child and sex between consenting adults, you got issues.
    I would say, though, that there have been cultures where pedophilia is accepted. And, there has been "legitimate" academic research proposing that older adult male molestation of adolescent males who later identify as gay, may be a beneficial "relationship". This can be seen as a movement towards secular acceptance, or at least tolerance of some sorts of sexual abuse.

    http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...1/ai_n9488757/

    "In conclusion, the standard convention of defining age-based childhood sexual abuse as uniformly negative, harmful, and coercive may not accurately represent gay and bisexual men's sexual experiences."
    "Contrary to popular belief, negative outcomes do not inevitably follow from gay and bisexual men's childhood age-discrepant sexual encounters."

    Further, there are scientist who believe pedophilia is a sexual orientation.

    http://www.salon.com/2011/08/17/pedophilia/
    There is a general consensus within the medical community that pedophilia is a sexual orientation and as such is unlikely to change, so treatment focuses on helping them to suppress their desires through psychotherapy and medication.
    So, I think there is some validity in the point being made, acknowledging that the comparison between the two acts should not be made directly. (I'll make this EXPLICIT...I am NOT comparing homosexuality to pedophilia). But, just because a society accepts or legitimizes certain acts or behaviors does not mean that acceptance or accommodation should be forced onto people who's faith strongly contradicts the behavior.

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by hskrdavey View Post
    Nope Sorry RP. Guess it was more of a gut reaction since most Left Wingers immediately move to the "Your a Homophobe" or "Your just scared of homosexuals...??" when you disagree with them on this subject... Typically that's how it works. So thought I'd beat them to the punch... (and I noticed I just made the post in time....(CM's "What do you fear when it come to homosexuals>....)
    You are arguing that it should be acceptable to discriminate against gays. You are arguing that it should be perfectly legal for an employer to walk into an employee's office and say "I just found out you're gay. You're fired." I personally find that kind of behavior of an employer to be repugnant. I think employees should be judged by the quality of their work, and not by what they do in the privacy of their own bedroom. It is a legitmate question for CM or anyone else to ask you, why do you feel otherwise. Why are you in favor of allowing discrimination against gay people?
    "The distinctive mark of the Christian, today more than ever, must be love for the poor, the weak, the suffering." Pope John Paul II


  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by OmaHusker View Post
    I'm sorry you've stooped to smart aleck responses. Out.
    It is the only appropriate way to deal with arguments that are utterly absurd. Bye.
    "The distinctive mark of the Christian, today more than ever, must be love for the poor, the weak, the suffering." Pope John Paul II


  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by OmaHusker View Post
    I'm sorry you've stooped to smart aleck responses. Out.
    Oh yeah cause "cannibalism" was so serious.....


  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by ChitownHusker View Post
    I think that would make the vast pro-cannibalism movement in this country very happy. I mean, there really are so many people out there just waiting to be fried up and served with chips, if only the law would allow it. If we outlaw discrimination against gays, next in line is the legalization of pedophilia and cannibalism.
    I would say, I have not come across legitimate academic research that has rationalized that cannibalism is beneficial to certain sexual orientations or that have described cannibalism as an inherent human trait such as sexuality.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by SealBeachHusker View Post
    I would say, though, that there have been cultures where pedophilia is accepted. And, there has been "legitimate" academic research proposing that older adult male molestation of adolescent males who later identify as gay, may be a beneficial "relationship". This can be seen as a movement towards secular acceptance, or at least tolerance of some sorts of sexual abuse.

    http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...1/ai_n9488757/



    "Contrary to popular belief, negative outcomes do not inevitably follow from gay and bisexual men's childhood age-discrepant sexual encounters."

    Further, there are scientist who believe pedophilia is a sexual orientation.

    http://www.salon.com/2011/08/17/pedophilia/


    So, I think there is some validity in the point being made, acknowledging that the comparison between the two acts should not be made directly. (I'll make this EXPLICIT...I am NOT comparing homosexuality to pedophilia). But, just because a society accepts or legitimizes certain acts or behaviors does not mean that acceptance or accommodation should be forced onto people who's faith strongly contradicts the behavior.
    You posted this in the other RB thread and I asked how is this a move towards secular acceptance of pedophilia, here is my quote:

    How so? Find me secularists on this board arguing that pedophilia should be acceptable. While I can't speak for all secularists, I can speak for the ones I know, and I don't know any that are for this type of behavior. At any rate, I STRONGLY disagree with the idea that consensual sex between two adult men or women should somehow come into the same argument as non-consensual sex between two partners, which pedophilia by its very nature is as it's directed towards children. Honestly, if you can't make the distinction between what pedophilia represents and homesexuality I don't know what to tell you. As an atheist, I believe we need to protect our children and I don't know any other atheists/secularists that don't feel the same. I find it rather curious why you make the bolded statement anyway. How is the study a "secular movement towards the acceptance of pedophilia?"

    "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." -Carl Sagan


  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by ChitownHusker View Post
    You are arguing that it should be acceptable to discriminate against gays. You are arguing that it should be perfectly legal for an employer to walk into an employee's office and say "I just found out you're gay. You're fired." I personally find that kind of behavior of an employer to be repugnant. I think employees should be judged by the quality of their work, and not by what they do in the privacy of their own bedroom. It is a legitmate question for CM or anyone else to ask you, why do you feel otherwise. Why are you in favor of allowing discrimination against gay people?
    I'd say if the employment in a small family business or religious organization constitutes a contradiction of religious practice, than I could understand a need to allow for this type of discrimination in some cases. IMO, in these cases the right to freely practice ones religious faith supersedes the right of an individual to work at that particular small family business or religious organization. I do not, though, support a wholesale allowance to discriminate against gays.

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by SealBeachHusker View Post
    I would say, I have not come across legitimate academic research that has rationalized that cannibalism is beneficial to certain sexual orientations or that have described cannibalism as an inherent human trait such as sexuality.
    You've made this argument a number of times, and I have to say I couldn't disagree more. Academic research simply is not a reasonable proxy for potential societal acceptance. Professors in their Ivory Towers say completely absurd crap all the time. The fact that some professor somewhere has attempted to justify pedophilia as acceptable is not a prelude to broader acceptance.
    "The distinctive mark of the Christian, today more than ever, must be love for the poor, the weak, the suffering." Pope John Paul II


  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by SealBeachHusker View Post
    I'd say if the employment in a small family business or religious organization constitutes a contradiction of religious practice, than I could understand a need to allow for this type of discrimination in some cases. IMO, in these cases the right to freely practice ones religious faith supersedes the right of an individual to work at that particular small family business or religious organization. I do not, though, support a wholesale allowance to discriminate against gays.
    How far can religious discrimination go? No gays...no blacks...no women....no jews....no muslims....no atheists....no christians.....no cripples....? Where would you draw the line and why would you allow one segment of society to discriminate without providing the same opportunity to discriminate to all the other classes?

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by The Impaler View Post
    You posted this in the other RB thread and I asked how is this a move towards secular acceptance of pedophilia, here is my quote:
    I just gave you evidence of a move towards secular acceptance of pedophilia...by showing academic research that classifies it along with heterosexuality and homosexuality as a "sexual orientation" and research that shows pedophilia may be beneficial to kids who later grow up to identify as gay or bisexual. I think those contentions both have, at least, concerning implications.

  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by SealBeachHusker View Post
    I just gave you evidence of a move towards secular acceptance of pedophilia...by showing academic research that classifies it along with heterosexuality and homosexuality as a "sexual orientation" and research that shows pedophilia may be beneficial to kids who later grow up to identify as gay or bisexual. I think those contentions both have, at least, concerning implications.
    No you didn't, you linked a study of the effect of molestion on young gay people. I think you're inserting your own agenda here. While that article may come to some conclusions that sexual molestation of a gay youth may not be as harmful as one would think, I don't see where it comes to the conclusion that this behavior should be allowed and would benefit society and young people. In short, a study of effects is just that.

    "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." -Carl Sagan


  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChitownHusker View Post
    You are arguing that it should be acceptable to discriminate against gays. You are arguing that it should be perfectly legal for an employer to walk into an employee's office and say "I just found out you're gay. You're fired." I personally find that kind of behavior of an employer to be repugnant. I think employees should be judged by the quality of their work, and not by what they do in the privacy of their own bedroom. It is a legitmate question for CM or anyone else to ask you, why do you feel otherwise. Why are you in favor of allowing discrimination against gay people?
    I did not say it's ACCEPTABLE to discriminate against gays. I just do not believe it should be put into a law. Too much Govt interference. In response to your question on whether he's fired or not... It doesn't matter. I think an EMPLOYER who runs his own business should be able to fire anyone he wants to for any reason. Its HIS business. Not the governments. People get fired every day for things much less than being gay.

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by RedPhoenix View Post
    How far can religious discrimination go? No gays...no blacks...no women....no jews....no muslims....no atheists....no christians.....no cripples....? Where would you draw the line and why would you allow one segment of society to discriminate without providing the same opportunity to discriminate to all the other classes?
    We discriminate on myriad of criteria on a daily basis. That's not the point. Unlike the examples you used it is a centuries held religious observance, of a faith that is the predominant on the planet, that is based on a very specific behavior that is seen as sinful.

    Also, I do believe, for instance, that a Muslim organization should not be forced by a judge to hire Christians, Atheists, or Jews if it means contradicting their religious practice.

  19. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by hskrdavey View Post
    I did not say it's ACCEPTABLE to discriminate against gays. I just do not believe it should be put into a law. Too much Govt interference. In response to your question on whether he's fired or not... It doesn't matter. I think and EMPLOYER who runs his own business should be able to fire anyone he wants to for any reason. Its HIS business. Not the governments. People get fired every day for things much less than being gay.
    You're contradicting yourself.

  20. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by hskrdavey View Post
    I did not say it's ACCEPTABLE to discriminate against gays. I just do not believe it should be put into a law. Too much Govt interference. In response to your question on whether he's fired or not... It doesn't matter. I think and EMPLOYER who runs his own business should be able to fire anyone he wants to for any reason. Its HIS business. Not the governments. People get fired every day for things much less than being gay.

    Wow! Just wow. So I live in TX, do you think it would be OK for employers here to discrimintate against me becasue I am from Nebraska? Jay, just found out you're from Nebraska, you're fired.

    "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." -Carl Sagan





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