Ron Brown issue/discussion wonderfully articulated...

[YellowDent#2]

Stryker really makes some sense here, especially with this line:

"They (Wojciechowski,Huffington Post, et al) criticize him for using his job as a platform to oppose the widening of anti-discrimination ordinances to include homosexuals even as they use their own jobs as platforms to promote the widening of anti-discrimination ordinances to include homosexuals."


http://www.huskermax.com/vbbs/conten...m-of-Ron-Brown

[RedBlack&Blue]

Ron Brown does not speak for Christians or Christianity. He speaks for Ron Brown.

An opinion on an anti-discrimination ordinance has nothing to do with Faith.

Ron Brown may believe that homosexuality is a sin, but there are many Christians who don't agree with him. Of course, there are many who do.

Either way, discriminating against any group is wrong. Homosexuality will continue with or without Ron Brown's opinion. However, too many opinions such as his has allowed a group of people to be discriminated against.

And yes, they are a distinct group. We made them so by ostracizing them in a messed up interpretation of the Bible.


PS -- Mods, shouldn't this be in the Cafe?

[hskrdavey]

.......Either way, discriminating against any group is wrong. Homosexuality will continue with or without Ron Brown's opinion. However, too many opinions such as his has allowed a group of people to be discriminated against.

And yes, they are a distinct group. We made them so by ostracizing them in a messed up interpretation of the Bible.


PS -- Mods, shouldn't this be in the Cafe?

So if child molesters (a group of people with a sexual preference) are found to be "born with" that preference.....which some say they "are" born with it and cant "help" it.......they should not be discriminated against?

[Showman]

So if child molesters (a group of people with a sexual preference) are found to be "born with" that preference.....which some say they "are" born with it and cant "help" it.......they should not be discriminated against?

That's what you call a false analogy.

[RedBlack&Blue]

That's what you call a false analogy.

What he said.

[ChitownHusker]

That's what you call a false analogy.

Just a little bit.

[RedBlack&Blue]

So if child molesters (a group of people with a sexual preference) are found to be "born with" that preference.....which some say they "are" born with it and cant "help" it.......they should not be discriminated against?

Ignorant post. Just plain ignorant.

If you can't distinguish between a crime against a child and sex between consenting adults, you got issues.

[ThotDoc]

Ignorant post. Just plain ignorant.

If you can't distinguish between a crime against a child and sex between consenting adults, you got issues.

Whether you think it should be or not, isn't sodomy still a crime in some states?

[Huskers57]

Isn't sodomy still a crome in some states?

[RedBlack&Blue]

Whether you think it should be or not, isn't sodomy still a crime in some states?

Wouldn't know. Google it.

If there are, they're probably enforced about as much as laws pertaining to buggies and horses.

[cm husker]

Whether you think it should be or not, isn't sodomy still a crime in some states?

If those statutes remain on the books, I don't believe they are enforceable anymore.

[ChitownHusker]

Whether you think it should be or not, isn't sodomy still a crime in some states?

No.

[SealBeachHusker]

Ignorant post. Just plain ignorant.

If you can't distinguish between a crime against a child and sex between consenting adults, you got issues.

I would say, though, that there have been cultures where pedophilia is accepted. And, there has been "legitimate" academic research proposing that older adult male molestation of adolescent males who later identify as gay, may be a beneficial "relationship". This can be seen as a movement towards secular acceptance, or at least tolerance of some sorts of sexual abuse.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...1/ai_n9488757/

"In conclusion, the standard convention of defining age-based childhood sexual abuse as uniformly negative, harmful, and coercive may not accurately represent gay and bisexual men's sexual experiences."

"Contrary to popular belief, negative outcomes do not inevitably follow from gay and bisexual men's childhood age-discrepant sexual encounters."

Further, there are scientist who believe pedophilia is a sexual orientation.

http://www.salon.com/2011/08/17/pedophilia/

There is a general consensus within the medical community that pedophilia is a sexual orientation and as such is unlikely to change, so treatment focuses on helping them to suppress their desires through psychotherapy and medication.

So, I think there is some validity in the point being made, acknowledging that the comparison between the two acts should not be made directly. (I'll make this EXPLICIT...I am NOT comparing homosexuality to pedophilia). But, just because a society accepts or legitimizes certain acts or behaviors does not mean that acceptance or accommodation should be forced onto people who's faith strongly contradicts the behavior.

[The Impaler]

I would say, though, that there have been cultures where pedophilia is accepted. And, there has been "legitimate" academic research proposing that older adult male molestation of adolescent males who later identify as gay, may be a beneficial "relationship". This can be seen as a movement towards secular acceptance, or at least tolerance of some sorts of sexual abuse.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...1/ai_n9488757/



"Contrary to popular belief, negative outcomes do not inevitably follow from gay and bisexual men's childhood age-discrepant sexual encounters."

Further, there are scientist who believe pedophilia is a sexual orientation.

http://www.salon.com/2011/08/17/pedophilia/


So, I think there is some validity in the point being made, acknowledging that the comparison between the two acts should not be made directly. (I'll make this EXPLICIT...I am NOT comparing homosexuality to pedophilia). But, just because a society accepts or legitimizes certain acts or behaviors does not mean that acceptance or accommodation should be forced onto people who's faith strongly contradicts the behavior.

You posted this in the other RB thread and I asked how is this a move towards secular acceptance of pedophilia, here is my quote:

How so? Find me secularists on this board arguing that pedophilia should be acceptable. While I can't speak for all secularists, I can speak for the ones I know, and I don't know any that are for this type of behavior. At any rate, I STRONGLY disagree with the idea that consensual sex between two adult men or women should somehow come into the same argument as non-consensual sex between two partners, which pedophilia by its very nature is as it's directed towards children. Honestly, if you can't make the distinction between what pedophilia represents and homesexuality I don't know what to tell you. As an atheist, I believe we need to protect our children and I don't know any other atheists/secularists that don't feel the same. I find it rather curious why you make the bolded statement anyway. How is the study a "secular movement towards the acceptance of pedophilia?"

[cm husker]

So if child molesters (a group of people with a sexual preference) are found to be "born with" that preference.....which some say they "are" born with it and cant "help" it.......they should not be discriminated against?

Is this a serious comparison?

[ThotDoc]

Is this a serious comparison?

I'm not sure if it was or not, but perhaps the point is that societal mores have changed over time (eg. homosexuality) and perhaps one should be careful about certain generalizations about what is perceived as aberrant or not. Homosexulaity was perceived as aberrant by most and now perhaps not by most. Davey may have been making the point of what happens if our society continue to morph in such a way that sex with children is more mainstream.

[Showman]

I'm not sure if it was or not, but perhaps the point is that societal mores have changed over time (eg. homosexuality) and perhaps one should be careful about certain generalizations about what is perceived as aberrant or not. Homosexulaity was perceived as aberrant by most and now perhaps not by most. Davey may have been making the point of what happens if our society continue to morph in such a way that sex with children is more mainstream.

I don't think that will ever happen, though.

[hskrdavey]

I'm not sure if it was or not, but perhaps the point is that societal mores have changed over time (eg. homosexuality) and perhaps one should be careful about certain generalizations about what is perceived as aberrant or not. Homosexulaity was perceived as aberrant by most and now perhaps not by most. Davey may have been making the point of what happens if our society continue to morph in such a way that sex with children is more mainstream.

THAT. Spot on Doc. It's what we seem as acceptable now...vs in the past.. and bout what wacko's may deem as acceptable in the future.

[cm husker]

I'm not sure if it was or not, but perhaps the point is that societal mores have changed over time (eg. homosexuality) and perhaps one should be careful about certain generalizations about what is perceived as aberrant or not. Homosexulaity was perceived as aberrant by most and now perhaps not by most. Davey may have been making the point of what happens if our society continue to morph in such a way that sex with children is more mainstream.

Society acknowledging that two people of the same sex can have a consensual, fulfilling and beneficial relationship by outlawing discrimination based on homosexuality isn't a step on a logic progression line toward society accepting non-consensual relationships between adults and children.

They aren't even in the same sport, let alone league.

[Showman]

Is this a serious comparison?

There are people who still cling to these kinds of comparisons, "people will be marrying their dogs!," etc. The only one that sparks an interesting/legitimate discussion is the comparison to plural marriage, such as that practiced by some Mormons. Obviously the cases of coercion and abuse involved in some of the more sensational instances publicized make for more of davey's style of parallel, but I have read several pieces over the years that make a pretty good case for those consenting adults, much like gay consenting adults, to marry as they see fit. But yes, the rest is rubbish.