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Thread: Obamacare saves billions for companies

  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Man Jury View Post
    I'll say it again- a trained frog would do a better job than Obama. Or even a stuffed frog. Or a goat. The latter 3 don't know how to screw things up. They wouldn't increase the national debt by 5 trillion in 3 years. None of the 3 would give GM to it's union.
    You could have the goat eat our GDP and he couldn't do the fiscal damage Obama is doing. Goat-- change you can believe in.

    seems you have said it enough so you believe it now....good job

    Is it hard for any personal thought on the issue when you have people telling you what to think yelling in each ear?


    I cannot be bought, compromised, detoured, lured away, turned back, deluded, or delayed. I will not flinch in the face of sacrifice, hesitate in the presence of adversity, negotiate at the table of the enemy, ponder at the pool of popularity, or meander in the maze of mediocrity.I wont give up, shut up, let up, until I have stayed up, stored up, prayed up, paid up, and showed up for all wounded children.

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Husker Mort View Post
    Wrong AGAIN, huzkurz. Hopefully, at some point you will at least look into some of the propaganda you are fed and regurgitate here without pause.

    "And it’s also untrue — as claimed in a graphic widely circulated by email and in social media postings — that the debt has increased more under Obama than under all previous 43 presidents combined. In fact, as of Jan. 31, 2012, the rise under Obama had yet to surpass the rise under his predecessor, George W. Bush." http://www.factcheck.org/2012/02/due...bt-deceptions/
    Thanks for that link, Mort. But you sure cherry-picked the small part to quote, didn't you? How about these from that article:

    Both sides are circulating deceptions about the federal debt, judging by the many queries we get from our readers.

    It’s not true, for example, that the debt has increased only 16 percent since Obama took office. That erroneous calculation originally came from the office of House Democratic Leader Nancy Pelosi. And — despite being corrected later — it has continued to circulate via email.

    Even the corrected version, currently appearing on the site of the liberal group MoveOn.org and Pelosi’s Flickr site, is many months out of date as of this writing. It shows a 35 percent increase for Obama,

    the nation’s total debt stood at $10.6 trillion on the day Obama took office (not $6.3 trillion), and it had increased to nearly $15.4 trillion by the end of January 2012 — a rise of more than $4.7 trillion in just over three years (not $6.5 trillion).

    That’s a huge increase to be sure — 44.5 percent. And the Congressional Budget Office now projects that it will grow to more than $16 trillion by the end of the current fiscal year on Sept. 30. At that point, the debt will have increased by more dollars in Obama’s first four years than it did in George W. Bush’s entire eight-year tenure, when it rose by $4.9 trillion. The rise under Obama would then be the biggest dollar increase for any president in U.S. history.
    So, the CBO itself projects that 4 years of Obama will saddle us with more debt than the entire 8 years of Bush's presidency. And - I'd say its a little worse for House Democratic Leader Nancy Pelosi to be responsible for "some of the propaganda you are fed and regurgitate here" than for an internet poster named Huzkurz.





  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by McKinneyTXHusker View Post
    Thanks for that link, Mort. But you sure cherry-picked the small part to quote, didn't you? How about these from that article:



    So, the CBO itself projects that 4 years of Obama will saddle us with more debt than the entire 8 years of Bush's presidency. And - I'd say its a little worse for House Democratic Leader Nancy Pelosi to be responsible for "some of the propaganda you are fed and regurgitate here" than for an internet poster named Huzkurz.




    Mort's post was 100% accurate and not cherry picked. He was addressing a particular claim and showed that claim to be false.

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedPhoenix View Post
    Mort's post was 100% accurate and not cherry picked. He was addressing a particular claim and showed that claim to be false.
    Did I claim his post was not 100% accurate, RP? No, I did not. I pointed out that he carefully cherry-picked the small piece he quoted and ignored the bigger picture presented by the article. My post was also 100% accurate.

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by McKinneyTXHusker View Post
    Did I claim his post was not 100% accurate, RP? No, I did not. I pointed out that he carefully cherry-picked the small piece he quoted and ignored the bigger picture presented by the article. My post was also 100% accurate.
    Agree to disagree. Not cherry picked.

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by McKinneyTXHusker View Post
    Thanks for that link, Mort. But you sure cherry-picked the small part to quote, didn't you?...So, the CBO itself projects that 4 years of Obama will saddle us with more debt than the entire 8 years of Bush's presidency. And - I'd say its a little worse for House Democratic Leader Nancy Pelosi to be responsible for "some of the propaganda you are fed and regurgitate here" than for an internet poster named Huzkurz.
    It is sweet that you are trying to stand up for your buddy, but countering with intellectual dishonesty doesn't help your cause. I didn't "cherry-pick" anything. The paragraph that I highlighted was a direct response to huzkurz outlandish and roundly discredited--albeit widespread--belief that President Obama has run up more debt than all other presidents combined. (The claim is even more insidious when you adjust for inflation and begin to understand that, since the debt is largely based on interest from previous spending, it will increase exponentially.) What does it say to you that each of the GOP leaders has at one time or another promoted this fallacy and that many of their followers assume it to be true?

    I then provided the link to the entirety of the article so that anyone could check the source. If hzkrz had said, "Obama is on pace to outspend Bush II" or, "Pelosi is using an incorrect percentage" I would have acquiesced, but he did not. My choice to not quote the entirety of the article (and instead provide a link) was for purposes of efficacy and a basic approach to research.

    The only thing cherry picked here is your rebuttal.
    "The purpose of argument, should not be victory, but progress." proverb

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedPhoenix View Post
    Mort's post was 100% accurate and not cherry picked. He was addressing a particular claim and showed that claim to be false.
    Literacy is hard to come by these days.
    "The purpose of argument, should not be victory, but progress." proverb

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Husker Mort View Post
    Literacy is hard to come by these days.
    Ah Mortie, I'm sure you're so happy to have your sidekick back to protect you.

    Again, I note that Nancy Pelosi herself is the source of many of the debt fabrications. And no, I don't believe that "each of the GOP leaders has at one time or another promoted" the fallacy that Obama's debt is larger than all other Presidents combined. I note you didn't try to provide a link for that - I imagine that could prove quite difficult!

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by McKinneyTXHusker View Post
    Ah Mortie, I'm sure you're so happy to have your sidekick back to protect you.

    Again, I note that Nancy Pelosi herself is the source of many of the debt fabrications. And no, I don't believe that "each of the GOP leaders has at one time or another promoted" the fallacy that Obama's debt is larger than all other Presidents combined. I note you didn't try to provide a link for that - I imagine that could prove quite difficult!
    Eric Cantor: “...the budget submitted by Obama will add more to the debt than the outstanding debt of the previous 43 presidents combined.”

    Rand Paul
    http://www.louisville.com/content/ke...-opinion-arena

    Mitt Romney
    http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...h-debt-almost/

    Sarah Palin
    http://www.factcheck.org/2011/06/pal...t-oil-imports/

    Georgia GOP
    http://www.politifact.com/georgia/st...rgia-gop-says/
    "The purpose of argument, should not be victory, but progress." proverb

  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Husker Mort View Post
    Wrong AGAIN, huzkurz. Hopefully, at some point you will at least look into some of the propaganda you are fed and regurgitate here without pause.

    "And it’s also untrue — as claimed in a graphic widely circulated by email and in social media postings — that the debt has increased more under Obama than under all previous 43 presidents combined. In fact, as of Jan. 31, 2012, the rise under Obama had yet to surpass the rise under his predecessor, George W. Bush." http://www.factcheck.org/2012/02/due...bt-deceptions/





    You guys make a nice pair. With huzkurz rhetoric and your ridiculous claims you could probably get the nomination of the Tea Party when they split off from "the establishment".
    Not so fast Mortie. I'm glad you've decided to continue following me around.

    Just so you don't stroke out, let me state a fact per your link. In half the time Obama will amass more debt then W ever did and will be more than any president in history

    Said Willoughby: "My take on this would be that the statement is partially true.

    http://www.politifact.com/georgia/st...rgia-gop-says/

    That’s a huge increase to be sure — 44.5 percent. And the Congressional Budget Office now projects that it will grow to more than $16 trillion by the end of the current fiscal year on Sept. 30. At that point, the debt will have increased by more dollars in Obama’s first four years than it did in George W. Bush’s entire eight-year tenure, when it rose by $4.9 trillion. The rise under Obama would then be the biggest dollar increase for any president in U.S. history.


    http://www.factcheck.org/2012/02/due...bt-deceptions/
    Quote Originally Posted by Warhorse View Post
    Thank God for Obama saving and transforming our economy albeit slower than any (including him) would like.

  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by HuZkurZ View Post
    Not so fast Mortie. I'm glad you've decided to continue following me around.

    Just so you don't stroke out, let me state a fact per your link. In half the time Obama will amass more debt then W ever did and will be more than any president in history

    Said Willoughby: "My take on this would be that the statement is partially true.

    http://www.politifact.com/georgia/st...rgia-gop-says/

    That’s a huge increase to be sure — 44.5 percent. And the Congressional Budget Office now projects that it will grow to more than $16 trillion by the end of the current fiscal year on Sept. 30. At that point, the debt will have increased by more dollars in Obama’s first four years than it did in George W. Bush’s entire eight-year tenure, when it rose by $4.9 trillion. The rise under Obama would then be the biggest dollar increase for any president in U.S. history.


    http://www.factcheck.org/2012/02/due...bt-deceptions/
    Mort still correct.

    You are wrong Huzkurz.

  12. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by HuZkurZ View Post
    Not so fast Mortie. I'm glad you've decided to continue following me around.

    Just so you don't stroke out, let me state a fact per your link. In half the time Obama will amass more debt then W ever did and will be more than any president in history

    Said Willoughby: "My take on this would be that the statement is partially true.

    http://www.politifact.com/georgia/st...rgia-gop-says/

    That’s a huge increase to be sure — 44.5 percent. And the Congressional Budget Office now projects that it will grow to more than $16 trillion by the end of the current fiscal year on Sept. 30. At that point, the debt will have increased by more dollars in Obama’s first four years than it did in George W. Bush’s entire eight-year tenure, when it rose by $4.9 trillion. The rise under Obama would then be the biggest dollar increase for any president in U.S. history.


    http://www.factcheck.org/2012/02/due...bt-deceptions/
    Unfortunately, hzkrz, that is not what you claimed. I would love to agree with you at some point, but that will take at least a little effort from you as well.
    "The purpose of argument, should not be victory, but progress." proverb

  13. #93
    Guys, cut out the personal comments. There's a pretty decent debate going on besides the numerous ad hominem attacks, which are completely unnecessary.
    "The distinctive mark of the Christian, today more than ever, must be love for the poor, the weak, the suffering." Pope John Paul II


  14. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedPhoenix View Post
    Mort's post was 100% accurate and not cherry picked. He was addressing a particular claim and showed that claim to be false.
    And, politifact, which I linked on another post, says it's half true so, you just joined the false club.
    Quote Originally Posted by Warhorse View Post
    Thank God for Obama saving and transforming our economy albeit slower than any (including him) would like.

  15. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Husker Mort View Post
    Eric Cantor: “...the budget submitted by Obama will add more to the debt than the outstanding debt of the previous 43 presidents combined.”

    Rand Paul
    http://www.louisville.com/content/ke...-opinion-arena

    Mitt Romney
    http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...h-debt-almost/

    Sarah Palin
    http://www.factcheck.org/2011/06/pal...t-oil-imports/

    Georgia GOP
    http://www.politifact.com/georgia/st...rgia-gop-says/
    Sorry, I didn't realize that when you said "each of the GOP leaders" you meant one Presidential candidate, a Kentucky Senator, a Fox commentator and the Georgia GOP.

    From the ONE "GOP leader" you gave the cite for - Mitt Romney - I note this from your cite:

    Romney said something similar at a roundtable of small business leaders in Salem, N.H., on June 27, 2011. Romney said that Obama "is on track to have added so much debt to this country, that by the end of his first term, he will have added as much debt as all the prior presidents of this country combined." We rated the statement Mostly True.

  16. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Husker Mort View Post
    It is sweet that you are trying to stand up for your buddy, but countering with intellectual dishonesty doesn't help your cause. I didn't "cherry-pick" anything. The paragraph that I highlighted was a direct response to huzkurz outlandish and roundly discredited--albeit widespread--belief that President Obama has run up more debt than all other presidents combined. (The claim is even more insidious when you adjust for inflation and begin to understand that, since the debt is largely based on interest from previous spending, it will increase exponentially.) What does it say to you that each of the GOP leaders has at one time or another promoted this fallacy and that many of their followers assume it to be true?

    I then provided the link to the entirety of the article so that anyone could check the source. If hzkrz had said, "Obama is on pace to outspend Bush II" or, "Pelosi is using an incorrect percentage" I would have acquiesced, but he did not. My choice to not quote the entirety of the article (and instead provide a link) was for purposes of efficacy and a basic approach to research.

    The only thing cherry picked here is your rebuttal.
    Is this the way you act when someone engages you in a constructive debate? You complain about it when someone doesn't then respond the way you did to MTH when he tries. Yes, my original statement is not 100% accurate, however, politifact believes it is half true and the point that Obama is amassing huge debt is undeniable and will have created more debt than Bush in half the time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Warhorse View Post
    Thank God for Obama saving and transforming our economy albeit slower than any (including him) would like.

  17. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huskerwirejay View Post
    No but they are subsidizing it via the tax code.
    That has a different impact then being the one that sets coverage amounts and how much they will pay for procedures.

    It is without debate that the new set up will greatly insert government control over the system.

  18. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Husker Mort View Post
    Wrong AGAIN, huzkurz. Hopefully, at some point you will at least look into some of the propaganda you are fed and regurgitate here without pause.

    "And it’s also untrue — as claimed in a graphic widely circulated by email and in social media postings — that the debt has increased more under Obama than under all previous 43 presidents combined. In fact, as of Jan. 31, 2012, the rise under Obama had yet to surpass the rise under his predecessor, George W. Bush." http://www.factcheck.org/2012/02/due...bt-deceptions/
    Your claim that Huzkurz was completely wrong and "regurgitating propaganda you are fed" turns out to be way off base, the more I checked. As it turns out, the key thing is that it hasn't YET increased more under Obama than all other Presidents combined, BUT it is PROJECTED to increase more under Obama than all other Presidents combined by the end of Obama's first term in office.

    Statement by Eric Cantor on October 30, 2010:

    The budget submitted by Obama will add more to the debt than the outstanding debt of the previous 43 presidents combined.
    Politifact's take on that statement by Cantor? Its TRUE.

    Statement by Mitt Romney on June 27, 2011:

    By the end of his first term, President Obama will have added as much debt as all the prior 43 presidents combined.
    Politifact's take on that statement by Romney? Its MOSTLY TRUE.

    Quote Originally Posted by RedPhoenix View Post
    Mort's post was 100% accurate and not cherry picked. He was addressing a particular claim and showed that claim to be false.
    Obviously, as my Politifact links above prove, Mort's post was not quite so 100% accurate as you and he thought, RP.

  19. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by McKinneyTXHusker View Post
    Your claim that Huzkurz was completely wrong and "regurgitating propaganda you are fed" turns out to be way off base, the more I checked. As it turns out, the key thing is that it hasn't YET increased more under Obama than all other Presidents combined, BUT it is PROJECTED to increase more under Obama than all other Presidents combined by the end of Obama's first term in office.

    Statement by Eric Cantor on October 30, 2010:



    Politifact's take on that statement by Cantor? Its TRUE.

    Statement by Mitt Romney on June 27, 2011:



    Politifact's take on that statement by Romney? Its MOSTLY TRUE.


    Too bad that isn't the statement Mort was refuting. Huzkurz did not use the word "projected".

  20. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedPhoenix View Post


    Too bad that isn't the statement Mort was refuting. Huzkurz did not use the word "projected".
    They seem to have a penchant for reframing the argument in a way they can "win" it.
    "The purpose of argument, should not be victory, but progress." proverb


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