Dan Savage Points Out Hypocrisy in the Bible-one R rated word in video

[Huskers57]

maybe it is that all of these religions are serving the same god, just in different ways...

[ChitownHusker]

maybe it is that all of these religions are serving the same god, just in different ways...

I think that is very plausible 57. Or stated differently, that God speaks to the human race through many different religions.

[SealBeachHusker]

Genetic Memory and instinct are generally accepted as legitimate scientific theories. You don't know what is inherent in that genetic memory.

Neither case would explain the fact that you were not born with the idea that Jesus was the Son of God sent here to provide you with eternal salvation. That is entirely learned behavior.

You didn't say that...you said knowledge of God or an afterlife. Very general understandings...so, again, you do not know what details can or cannot be possibly transferred through genetic memory.

[Showman]

I like what Joseph Campbell had to say on the subject. Collective unconscious, hero with a thousand faces, etc.

[Carolina Husker]

You didn't say that...you said knowledge of God or an afterlife. Very general understandings...so, again, you do not know what details can or cannot be possibly transferred through genetic memory.

Your faith is in Jesus Christ as the Son of God. You were not born with that concept. Therefore you were born without faith.

[SealBeachHusker]

You didn't say that...you said knowledge of God or an afterlife. Very general understandings...so, again, you do not know what details can or cannot be possibly transferred through genetic memory.

Your faith is in Jesus Christ as the Son of God. You were not born with that concept. Therefore you were born without faith.

For a man of science you are not very precise. Here are your words:

"Well that would make sense in that you yourself were born with a complete lack of faith."

So, a last time...you do not know what is inherent in genetic memory.

What's that phrase you said believers have such a hard time with?

"I don't know."

[Carolina Husker]

For a man of science you are not very precise. Here are your words:

"Well that would make sense in that you yourself were born with a complete lack of faith."

So, a last time...you do not know what is inherent in genetic memory.

What's that phrase you said believers have such a hard time with?

"I don't know."

You were not born with the faith you have now. And it certainly wasn't genetic. There is no debate about that.

[McKinneyTXHusker]

You were not born with the faith you have now. And it certainly wasn't genetic. There is no debate about that.

And you weren't born with the "intellectualism" and feeling of superiority you have now. Your point???

[SealBeachHusker]

You were not born with the faith you have now. And it certainly wasn't genetic. There is no debate about that.

That wasn't what you said.

Carolina Husker

"Well that would make sense in that you yourself were born with a complete lack of faith."

Of course one's faith evolves over time. I don't have the same faith as I did in sixth grade, or five years ago for that matter.

Fact is, you do not know what understandings are inherent in people's genetic memory; so you cannot say what knowledge I, or anyone else, was born with.

But, I understand the difficulty in just saying, "I don't know."

[ChitownHusker]

But, I understand the difficulty in just saying, "I don't know."

I couldn't intellectually respect anyone who just says "I don't know."

[Huskers57]

I couldn't intellectually respect anyone who just says "I don't know."

I know.

[Carolina Husker]

That wasn't what you said.

Carolina Husker


Of course one's faith evolves over time. I don't have the same faith as I did in sixth grade, or five years ago for that matter.

Fact is, you do not know what understandings are inherent in people's genetic memory; so you cannot say what knowledge I, or anyone else, was born with.

But, I understand the difficulty in just saying, "I don't know."

Your faith is learned. There is no other way for you to have obtained it. There is nothing inherent or original about it. If no one ever told you about Jesus Christ, he wouldn't exist to you.

You have danced around a very direct point I made here pages ago after I responded to a poorly crafted response you made trying to show the inverse of another one of my quotes that also did not work for your argument.

[Carolina Husker]

I couldn't intellectually respect anyone who just says "I don't know."

It's the only honest answer to have.

[Carolina Husker]

And you weren't born with the "intellectualism" and feeling of superiority you have now. Your point???

I've made several points. I'm uninterested in reciting them again to you.

But I do enjoy seeing how mad you are.

[ChitownHusker]

It's the only honest answer to have.

So now people who believe differently than you are both unworthy of your "intellectual respect" and dishonest? You just keep digging that hole deeper and deeper.

At some point down the road you will come to realize that intelligent, honest, thoughtful people can reach conclusions about complex questions that are different than the conclusion you reached. Perhaps someday, like CS Lewis (a man far more intelligent than any of us), you may to come to believe that the world makes sense only with the existence of a benevolent deity. Until that time, I think you'd be really well served by trying to coprehend that your belief system is not the only one that is valid, and that the billions upon billions of people who have chosen to believe in God are not unworthy of your intellectual respect.

[SealBeachHusker]

That wasn't what you said.

Carolina Husker


Of course one's faith evolves over time. I don't have the same faith as I did in sixth grade, or five years ago for that matter.

Fact is, you do not know what understandings are inherent in people's genetic memory; so you cannot say what knowledge I, or anyone else, was born with.

But, I understand the difficulty in just saying, "I don't know."

Your faith is learned. There is no other way for you to have obtained it. There is nothing inherent or original about it. If no one ever told you about Jesus Christ, he wouldn't exist to you.

You have danced around a very direct point I made here pages ago after I responded to a poorly crafted response you made trying to show the inverse of another one of my quotes that also did not work for your argument.

Um, no...your statement was an absolute in regards to being born without faith, not in regards to any specific details pertinent to any particular religion. And, your statement is unprovable unless you can measure or record what is inherent to genetic memory. And...you can't. You do not know what information is genetically passed between human beings. The suggestion of a "God Gene" indicates at the very least a strong probability to have faith. Combining that with the notion of Genetic Memory, and the importance that faith has had on the human personal and collective psyche, could very well mean that faith is knowledge passed on between many humans.

So, again, you don't know.

[Carolina Husker]

So now people who believe differently than you are both unworthy of your "intellectual respect" and dishonest? You just keep digging that hole deeper and deeper.

At some point down the road you will come to realize that intelligent, honest, thoughtful people can reach conclusions about complex questions that are different than the conclusion you reached. Perhaps someday, like CS Lewis (a man far more intelligent than any of us), you may to come to believe that the world makes sense only with the existence of a benevolent deity. Until that time, I think you'd be really well served by trying to coprehend that your belief system is not the only one that is valid, and that the billions upon billions of people who have chosen to believe in God are not unworthy of your intellectual respect.

If you claim to know what happens after we die, you are dishonest or delusional.

Either way, the only honest response is "I don't know." you can believe in a benevolent deity, but you cannot know of its existence.

To claim otherwise would infer that we've redefined the word "know."

[Carolina Husker]

Um, no...your statement was an absolute in regards to being born without faith, not in regards to any specific details pertinent to any particular religion. And, your statement is unprovable unless you can measure or record what is inherent to genetic memory. And...you can't. You do not know what information is genetically passed between human beings. The suggestion of a "God Gene" indicates at the very least a strong probability to have faith. Combining that with the notion of Genetic Memory, and the importance that faith has had on the human personal and collective psyche, could very well mean that faith is knowledge passed on between many humans.

So, again, you don't know.

Um, yes. The God Gene doesn't imply your parents passed their beliefs to you genetically. It means you may be predisposed to developing the same capacity for faith based beliefs. That still in no way implies that you were born with faith. How could you be? You were, at the very least, born agnostic. You learned to become religious.

[Carolina Husker]

I meant to comment on this earlier.

I do. I respect the fact that I can no more "prove" my faith than they can "prove" theres. I particularly respect Mormons -- I have found them almost without exception to be truly decent, caring people who are very thoughtful and introspective about their faith

First, I appreciate the response. I'm not asking about Mormons as they relate to your interactions with them. In my experiences as well they've been quite a pleasant lot.

I'm asking if you respect their beliefs. I, for one, do not. Same for Scientology. What they proclaim cannot be believed by a thinking person. There's no shame in admitting that.

I
I believe with all my heart in the Christian God, but I humbly acknowledge the possibility that I could be wrong.

I respect that.

[ChitownHusker]

If you claim to know what happens after we die, you are dishonest or delusional.

Either way, the only honest response is "I don't know." you can believe in a benevolent deity, but you cannot know of its existence.

To claim otherwise would infer that we've redefined the word "know."

Now you're changing the argument. All of us here understand the distinction between belief (faith) and knowledge (certainty). When you decide to attack people who claim to know of the existence of God to a certainty, you are attacking a red herring. I believe in God with all my heart and all my mind, but I do not know He exists to a scientific certainty. As I already said, the opposite of faith is not doubt but certainty.

Let's not forget what you said in your original quote:

I see nothing wrong with what he said. I think that which is irrational, illogical and contradictory should be treated with derision.

I can acknowledge one's personal faith, and understand the need for it in some cases. But do not expect me to treat it, or any dogma for that matter, with intellectual respect. It doesn't deserve it.

You attacked faith as unworthy of your intellectual respect. You cited the Bible as irrational, illogical and contradictory, and therefore something to be "treated with derision."

I think that it was ridiculous for you to condemn the billions upon billions of people who have a strong faith in God as unworthy of your intellectual respect. Beyond that, we might be able to find some common ground about the arrogance implicit in anyone claiming to know that which is unknowable.