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Thread: Dan Savage Points Out Hypocrisy in the Bible-one R rated word in video

  1. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Carolina Husker View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by SealBeachHusker View Post
    Ironically, the three descriptors you use are often used to describe homosexuality.
    Not by anyone I would take seriously.
    And, your general derision of religion...dogmatic itself by the way? Do you think it inspires anyone to take you seriously? You come of as arrogant and ill informed as those you presume to judge.

    The irony is almost absurd.

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by LutheranHusker View Post
    Is it not possible to approach the Bible or the framework of faith that it describes and/or inspires with intellectual respect?
    I would never presume to understand what inspires an individual. I would say that anything rooted in "faith" above reason cannot be respected intellectually.

    We could argue endlessly, but at some point it will come back to the singular idea that you "believe" what cannot be proven. I cannot respect that as an intellectual position.

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChitownHusker View Post
    Do you mean other than yourself?
    If it helps you wrap your brain around my disdain for religion, disregarding my political stances on a variety of other topics, who am I to break your convenient little label. I wouldn't be ashamed to be on "the Left" even if it were true.

  4. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Carolina Husker View Post
    If it helps you wrap your brain around my disdain for religion, disregarding my political stances on a variety of other topics, who am I to break your convenient little label. I wouldn't be ashamed to be on "the Left" even if it were true.
    Which, of course, it is.
    "The distinctive mark of the Christian, today more than ever, must be love for the poor, the weak, the suffering." Pope John Paul II


  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by SealBeachHusker View Post
    And, your general derision of religion...dogmatic itself by the way? Do you think it inspires anyone to take you seriously? You come of as arrogant and ill informed as those you presume to judge.

    The irony is almost absurd.
    The truly absurd position to hold is any other than "I don't know." There's nothing more pragmatic than admitting that none of us know what happens after we die, and anyone who claims to know is either lying or delusional.

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChitownHusker View Post
    Which, of course, it is.
    This is what my Browser is showing.

  7. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by Carolina Husker View Post
    This is what my Browser is showing.
    Interestingly, my browser is showing the following.

    Modifying Quotes/“Fixed It For You": Posters are encouraged to use the "quote" function when responding to statements by other posters. Quoting of posters that does not contain a link to the original quote is not permitted. It is acceptable to shorten the other poster's quote if you are addressing only one portion of the prior post. However, it is not acceptable to change or modify the prior quote in order to change its meaning. This includes changing the quoted portion of the post and then putting "fixed it for you" or "FIFY" in the text of your own post.

    I'd suggest fixing my quote back to the way it was. Thanks.
    "The distinctive mark of the Christian, today more than ever, must be love for the poor, the weak, the suffering." Pope John Paul II


  8. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Carolina Husker View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by LutheranHusker View Post
    Is it not possible to approach the Bible or the framework of faith that it describes and/or inspires with intellectual respect?
    I would never presume to understand what inspires an individual. I would say that anything rooted in "faith" above reason cannot be respected intellectually.

    We could argue endlessly, but at some point it will come back to the singular idea that you "believe" what cannot be proven. I cannot respect that as an intellectual position.
    Thankfully, the most progressive of thinkers in science often theorize that which is beyond their reasonable
    lifetime to ever prove.

    And, taken to the extreme, science and probability is ammoral and can be used to justify everything from genocide to eugenics. Science alone is not enough. Social mores are not objectively testable and measurable, they are a "belief" in what is right and wrong, yet they are essential to a thriving society.

  9. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Carolina Husker View Post
    I see nothing wrong with what he said. I think that which is irrational, illogical and contradictory should be treated with derision.

    I can acknowledge one's personal faith, and understand the need for it in some cases. But do not expect me to treat it, or any dogma for that matter, with intellectual respect. It doesn't deserve it.

    I can acknowledge one's personal lack of faith, and understand why someone either lost it or never had it. But do not expect me to treat it, or any other atheistic dogma for that matter, with respect. It doesn't deserve it.

    Anyway, you get the point. Or do you? Who cares.

  10. #85
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    Nah.

  11. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Carolina Husker View Post

    The truly absurd position to hold is any other than "I don't know." There's nothing more pragmatic than admitting that none of us know what happens after we die, and anyone who claims to know is either lying or delusional.
    This I can understand and agree with. I believe I have been given promises about what will happen after we die, that we have been given pictures and metaphors to help try to describe it, but I can't know for sure. And that's where I see many of my Christian brothers and sisters getting tripped up...faith isn't assent to a set of intellectual propositions...it's simply trust. And frankly, I put much more trust in the Bible as a series of writings that came together over hundreds of years by different people in different circumstances with different aims in different styles and most likely after years of oral tradition before anything was even written than I would if someone tried to claim that it was divine dictation or miraculously discovered in a cave or something. I have faith in a God who inspired these writings, but intellectual responsibility in trying to learn all I can about their original languages and context and literary style and history and such.

    Faith may be separate from reason, but it ought not to force one to abandon reason, either. Each ought to inform the other, be in conversation with the other.

    I fully believe that while reason will never lead straight into faith, it absolutely can and does point to it.

    "Always be ready to make your defense to anyone who demands from you an accounting for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and reverence." 1 Peter 3:15-16 (NRSV)

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedBlack&Blue View Post
    I can acknowledge one's personal lack of faith, and understand why someone either lost it or never had it.
    Well that would make sense in that you yourself were born with a complete lack of faith.

  13. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by SealBeachHusker View Post
    Thankfully, the most progressive of thinkers in science often theorize that which is beyond their reasonable
    lifetime to ever prove.
    I was going to say something along those lines. Someone more knowledgable than me can give details, but I do know that in areas like quantum physics for example, scientists are able to theorize about subatomic particles that they pretty much figure have to be there because the rest of the data points to it, but they can't actually see them. If I understand it right, the Higgs boson is one such particle.

    It's not proof...it's informed, reasoned faith.

    "Always be ready to make your defense to anyone who demands from you an accounting for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and reverence." 1 Peter 3:15-16 (NRSV)

  14. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Carolina Husker View Post
    Nah.
    So you are refusing to comply with the board rules? I'll give you one more chance to rethink that position. Let me know what you want to do. I could simply go in and correct the quote for you, but I want to give you one more opportunity to fix things. Your call.
    "The distinctive mark of the Christian, today more than ever, must be love for the poor, the weak, the suffering." Pope John Paul II


  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by SealBeachHusker View Post
    Thankfully, the most progressive of thinkers in science often theorize that which is beyond their reasonable
    lifetime to ever prove.

    And, taken to the extreme, science and probability is ammoral and can be used to justify everything from genocide to eugenics. Science alone is not enough. Social mores are not objectively testable and measurable, they are a "belief" in what is right and wrong, yet they are essential to a thriving society.
    I am genuinely amused when people argue that either secularism or sectarianism can be used to motivate evil, therefore either approach is evil.








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