Notre Dame and Rutgers to BIG 10????

[The Big Red Lebowski]

That is what I mean by 90's thinking on their part.


The TV numbers on NBC are down. How long does NBC and their advertisers drop big $$$$$ for a subpar product? And by subpar I mean a couple of things. One, they are not winning. Two, they are not relevant to CFB right now and will not be in the near future unless they are in a NC game. Thus, all the NBC money is going to run out and their stock won't be nearly as high if they continue down the road they are on now.

For ND to continue to hold their weight in college football, they are going to have to join some conference. They cannot continue into the future under their current independent model; so yes, they are about to go on college football life support, and if I was a fan or alum of the institution I would be worried that the people in charge there do not understand that.

I could not disagree more. They absolutely can and will continue to be independent. The NBC contract runs through 2015. If NBC decided to not renew (highly unlikely), ESPN and Fox would be drooling all over themselves to pick up the Irish. The brand is certainly not as strong as it was 25 years ago, but it's still the most iconic brand in college football.

You aren't even making an argument. You are just stating that ND must join a conference to "hold their weight" in college football. Why? Again, they were just ranked as the 2nd most valuable team in college football. How can they possibly be on life support?

[Speedlimit]

I could not disagree more. They absolutely can and will continue to be independent. The NBC contract runs through 2015. If NBC decided to not renew (highly unlikely), ESPN and Fox would be drooling all over themselves to pick up the Irish. The brand is certainly not as strong as it was 25 years ago, but it's still the most iconic brand in college football.

You aren't even making an argument. You are just stating that ND must join a conference to "hold their weight" in college football. Why? Again, they were just ranked as the 2nd most valuable team in college football. How can they possibly be on life support?

Because they play for nothing and the TV money is being paid to air championship games, like conference and BCS.

What are these TV networks drolling for? Sagging ratings, which is exactly where ND football on NBC has been the last few years. Do they even beat snowboarding on NBC for ratings?

Also, it should be noted that ABC contracts often trump NBC's and that is why we often see ND's higher profile games like with Michigan (who has ESPN/ABC ties through B1G) on ABC and not NBC. How long is NBC going to be relegated to only getting ND's lower-profile games? This will be a huge point of contention when the K comes up, whih as you pointed out expires in 2015.

Again, ND may have brand name, but their product is crap. Not just the play, but the stakes. Usually, none of their games mean anything 1/2 through the season, because they are not playing for a conference championship. I frankly do not see any networks stepping forward and offering much to cover 6-8 bad ND games, especially if ABC is still poaching all the good games.

I only care from the B1G angle. ND can continue to go over the cliff for all I care, it would make for great entertainment. Though I would think someone within their organization should be able to see the writing on the wall. It says:

"It is not 1993 anymore!"

[MilesBFree]

Rutgers seems to have a decent following among New Jersey transplants down here. Some of it may be fair weather fans that jump on board the bandwagon when they are doing well (for a while there everyone had Winthrop bumper stickers on their cars here), but there are a lot of people that I know that seem more into it than just that. The TV set argument is a good one - even if the percentage of people watching at present is low, the raw numbers are large. The percentage would likely go up if on basic cable as others have pointed out. Contrast with Nebraska, where the raw numbers are relatively low, but the percentage is high. Purely from a TV market/advertising standpoint, this would be a big plus.

But purely from a football standpoint Rutgers isn't going to add that much. The fact that they played in the first college football game ever is nice. But beyond that, and a run under Schiano (now departed to Tampa Bay - will be interesting to see if they keep on with the success), they don't have much to go on. Up until Schiano my reference point for Rutgers was mostly those scoreboard rundowns you used to get on KFAB at the end of the Nebraska radio broadcasts where the announcer rattled off the scores of all the games and Rutgers was mentioned along with Lehigh, Holy Cross, and Valparaiso.

In other sports, they aren't that great either.

But the TV set argument is a good one.

As for ND, the way to get them to join a conference is for big-name schools to stop scheduling them especially after conference play starts. They might get a couple of big-name schools before that part of the season, but after that their strength of schedule rating falls of a cliff when the only schools they play are... Lehigh, Holy Cross, and Valparaiso. Sure they win out the rest of the season, but the computers would rank them very low as a result of SoS. That would effectively freeze them out of the playoff scenarios under discussion such as the 4-team one.

I was being a bit facetious there, but that is not entirely unlikely to happen even if not by design - as conferences get bigger, it will be harder to work a game against ND into a schedule. e.g.- the B1G is to go to a 9 game conference in 2017. That may take care of several usual suspect B1G opponents such as Michigan and Michigan State. If ND gets better there will be even less incentive to schedule them. Sort of a catch-22 for ND - stay relatively mediocre and the independence thing works. Get good and it doesn't.

[Porkchopexpress]

Because they play for nothing and the TV money is being paid to air championship games, like conference and BCS.

What are these TV networks drolling for? Sagging ratings, which is exactly where ND football on NBC has been the last few years. Do they even beat snowboarding on NBC for ratings?

Also, it should be noted that ABC contracts often trump NBC's and that is why we often see ND's higher profile games like with Michigan (who has ESPN/ABC ties through B1G) on ABC and not NBC. How long is NBC going to be relegated to only getting ND's lower-profile games? This will be a huge point of contention when the K comes up, whih as you pointed out expires in 2015.

Again, ND may have brand name, but their product is crap. Not just the play, but the stakes. Usually, none of their games mean anything 1/2 through the season, because they are not playing for a conference championship. I frankly do not see any networks stepping forward and offering much to cover 6-8 bad ND games, especially if ABC is still poaching all the good games.

I only care from the B1G angle. ND can continue to go over the cliff for all I care, it would make for great entertainment. Though I would think someone within their organization should be able to see the writing on the wall. It says:

"It is not 1993 anymore!"

I agree with some of what you've said, but NBC airs only ND home games. NBC has no control on which network picks up ND road games, as those are under the guidelines of the home team's TV contract. Most CFB TV contracts are set up to only control home games. That's why the NU/Wyoming game was on VS last year, and not on BTN. The MWC's TV contract trumps the B1G's contract, because the game was at Wyoming. Same thing goes for ND when they play on the road.

[Speedlimit]

I agree with some of what you've said, but NBC airs only ND home games. NBC has no control on which network picks up ND road games, as those are under the guidelines of the home team's TV contract. Most CFB TV contracts are set up to only control home games. That's why the NU/Wyoming game was on VS last year, and not on BTN. The MWC's TV contract trumps the B1G's contract, because the game was at Wyoming. Same thing goes for ND when they play on the road.

Is that the deal? They only have the rights to home games? That is even worse then. How long will NBC play big $$$ for that?

It seems like ABC carried the game when UNL played there in 2000?

I have noticed that many of their better games are not on NBC. There is no way that carrying only ND home games is a feasible model for NBC in the future, especially if 4TP comes to fruition and JD's CC w/ Top 6 ranking AQ requirement is part of that.

As I said, I think JD is slowly going to start to put the squeeze on Swarbuck and the Domers.

ND and Rutgers to the B1G before the 2014 season.

[BigRedIggy]

It seems like ABC carried the game when UNL played there in 2000?

Nope it was on NBC...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Notre_Dame_Football_on_NBC

Craig Minervini (2000) - Minervini filled in for Tom Hammond for the September 9, 2000 game against Nebraska, and the following week's game involving Purdue. Hammond was preparing for and subsequently, assigned to work on NBC's Summer Olympic telecasts in Sydney, Australia.

[Speedlimit]

Nope it was on NBC...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Notre_Dame_Football_on_NBC

Then ABC carried the game in Lincoln the following year?

That is a terrible deal for NBC.

The is no way in hell NBC is going to continue to pay big dollars just to show Touchdown Jesus 8 times per broadcast. NBC is going to have to drop huge $$$$ into paying Stern to re-sign for AGT, they won't have anything left for ND home games


I am just not sure JD can put enough pressure now, or if he is going to have to wait until the K negs start between ND and NBC, probably in 2013. I truly believe NBC is going to have a come to Touchdown Jesus talk with ND and explain that the advertisers are not there for a big $$$$K. They will offer to buy the rights, but not at the amount of money ND is going to think they should get and IMO not near the amount the B1G 10 can offer, ESP if they bring Rutger's and the NYC/NJ market.

The NBC deal will not be as good, and JD will be able to make them an offer they can't refuse.

[Porkchopexpress]

Is that the deal? They only have the rights to home games? That is even worse then. How long will NBC play big $$$ for that?

That's how all CFB TV contracts are set up. The B1G's TV contract only covers home football games. We don't notice as fans, because NU only plays one non-conference road game a season.

That's how the NBC contract with ND has been set up, since forever. NBC has never, ever, had rights to ND's road games. Same thing goes for every other TV contract. However, since ESPN/ABC has their hands in just about every other major conference, we don't notice it.

[Speedlimit]

That's how all CFB TV contracts are set up. The B1G's TV contract only covers home football games. We don't notice as fans, because NU only plays one non-conference road game a season.

That's how the NBC contract with ND has been set up, since forever. NBC has never, ever, had rights to ND's road games. Same thing goes for every other TV contract. However, since ESPN/ABC has their hands in just about every other major conference, we don't notice it.

And there lies the problem for ND. The big TV $$$$$ is now given for getting the conference and the inventory of games and match-ups that comes with it. That gives the networks flexibility to try to air the best games, which changes as the season progresses. Having this ability allows the networks to put the best games on depending on how the teams trend during the season, which is unpredictable. Imagine if the networks were tied into just carrying certain games and could not change what games it carried depending on how the season was going. That is kind of how it was in the old days, circa 1990 or so.

ND offers NBC nothing but its 6-7 home games a year. NBC will carry ND v. Stanford regardless of how good the teams are. Back in 1988, this might have attracted some an audience. However, if it is up against Georgia(#19) v. South Carolina(#11) on CBS; Michigan State(#12) v. Iowa(#24) on ABC; Michigan(#9) v. Penn State on ESPN; Oklahoma State(#6) v. Baylor on ESPN2, both the audience numbers and the advertising dollars are spread pretty thin for NBC.

The competition is way different than it was when ND and NBC first inked this deal. It was this deal and the generosity of the BCS and schools that keep scheduling ND, that has allowed them to function as long as they have as an independent.

Those days are over for ND. Time for them to come settledown into the B1G for the next couple of centuries.

[Porkchopexpress]

Those are good points. However, I have to believe NBC will want to stay in the CFB business in some capacity. There's no way they go from airing games, even if they are just ND home games, for 20+ years, to not airing any at all. There's way too much money in CFB TV right now. That may be what saves ND. It may not be the SEC on CBS, but it's much better than nothing.