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Thread: Coach Brown being Coach Brown.

  1. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by SealBeachHusker View Post
    I agree to some extent, but honestly believe he did not intend to be coy, and think he's pretty aware of the concerns of speaking about faith.

    http://m.journalstar.com/news/state-...cc4c002e0.html

    "When he knows he’s going to share his faith, he said, he asks the school to make attendance optional."

    And, still believe as faculty he should be afforded the same right to advocate his opinions as are professors with controversial views and ideas.
    I agree with you mostly. It's even possible that he simply forgot to add the disclaimer when he spoke to the City Council. So when Perlman said publicly Brown doesn't speak for the University on that, and tells Brown to remember the disclaimer next time, and Brown says OK, everything is good and well. I would just as soon everyone went right back to doing what they were doing. I love having Brown on staff.

    And it's not a cardinal sin that he talked to AP about how it would be OK if he is martyred. But it's poor judgment. That is, if he doesn't want to unnecessarily put his employer in a difficult position, or even make it more likely that at some point in the future he actually will have to be asked to leave.

    College football isn't like a Philosophy class. 80,000 people don't show up for anyone's political science class. The football program represent the university in an entirely different way. I am proud, and it is a cornerstone of my fan status, that Nebraska a program generally with character, and its coaches see character development as a key purpose. And even though I am not religious, I am proud of the way some of the coaches, like TO and Ron Brown use their faith as a motivator for that. I believe in colleges as places where quality people expose young people to important ideas and values, even those I don't agree with it.

    But to the degree Ron Brown's actions put the homosexuality issue in the national spotlight, he adds to the weight of evidence that might be used in a lawsuit against the school over non-discrimination laws.

    He also sullies a spectator sport that brings Nebraskans together. It is of no concern of mine that some fan I may sit next to in the stadium believes homosexuality is a sin and I don't. If Abdullah runs back a kick, we're going to be cheering and smiling and high fiving. If Ron Brown feels he has to drag Cornhusker football into the grungy world of politics by creating a strong national identity on this, then I don't support what he is doing to my football team.
    "It doesn't matter where you start or how people perceive you now or what your potential is. ... It's going to be how this football team comes together and meets the challenges ... I like our potential, but there's a lot of teams that like their potential. It's going to be how we put things together, how we grow and how we come together as a team. It's not going to be the best collection of talent, it's going to be the best team. ...." - Bo Pelini, Big 10 Media Days, 2014

  2. #197
    Also, when I was teaching, I would take the last day to specifically express my personal opinions and stated that they were my personal opinions. One thing I always stated was "Beware of Dogma. Beware of those who say they possess the Truth." In fact I usually wrote those very words on the board. To me, life is a learning experience. When you are convinced you have the answers, that you know the Truth, you are no longer learning, no longer growing as a human being.

    Yes, Grasshopper, life is a journey...

  3. #198
    Quote Originally Posted by ChitownHusker View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Big Red Rick View Post
    Have you ever questioned why you are at a Christian seminary? I'm not being a jerk, or cute, or anything other than serious. I wonder what your problem is with Christianity when you seek to be a purveyor of it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Big Red Rick View Post
    No, I think inspiration for a good life can come from anywhere. But what we consider "secular" morals still have a base in a belief in God, whether people want to accept that or not. I'm just asking an honest question. Or, if there is an old thread link which explains why Luth went to the seminary, I'd be happy to read it. I'm just trying to find understanding for his position.
    His position about what? That atheists and agnostics are perfectly capable of living a moral life? Have you ever read the parable of the Good Samaritan?

    Or his doubts that the Bible categorically condemns homosexuality as a sin? I think he could discuss knowledgeably with you every one of the half dozen passages that mention homosexual acts and give you a reasoned, Biblically-based reason for each of his beliefs. Or perhaps he could refer you to the many passages in the Gospel that talk about forgiveness, and not judging others. Maybe he'd just read to you the Gospel story about the woman about to be stoned to death for adultery.

    The Gospels mean "Good News." I can say without any question in my mind that I don't know another person who is more effective at spreading the Good News than Luth. Here is a person who lives his faith genuinely in every thing he does. A person who ministers to those in prison. Who has started "The Table" to provide food and fellowship to people who have neither. A youth minister helping to strengthen and bolster the faith and confidence of young people. A person who can speak with people who don't share his faith with kindness and compassion. A person who reflects on the meaning of Jesus' message in every aspect of his life.

    For you to question the authenticity of his faith because it is not sufficiently Republican enough for your tastes is beyond pathetic.

    Seriously, Rick, I'd love to know -- what has LutheranHusker ever said that makes you doubt that he is a Christian?
    Absolutely agree, there are myriad issues and positions that Christians disagree on, and it's always been odd to me that this one would inspire so much anger and animosity. Taking the lords name in vain is a sin, many Christians interpret cussing as a sin...do they have vial disgust for those that cuss? How about drinking alcohol to excess...a sin to many people. Or, porn and overtly sexual behaviors?

    People have read my opinions here regarding preserving traditional marriage. As Christians we witness to others by being an example and by sharing Gods word, not simply condemning people. People of other faiths may worship a different god than I do...breaking the first of the ten commandments. Shouldn't stop Christians from being loving, caring and respectful of them.

    That being said, I think sharing ones faith and beliefs should be respected as well if it is done in a thoughtful way without anger and animosity.

  4. #199
    Quote Originally Posted by Huskers57 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Prairie Sage View Post
    others understood that seeing the world from a different point of view was a valuable experience.
    That's a huge part of the college experience. be able to discern, discuss, observe and see things through different prisms rather than just one perspective.
    I would contend, though, that there is seldom a lack of left leaning points of view at a vast majority of universities.

    Also taught at UNL, and even in the college of business there was an abundance of overtly left leaning political ideologies...sometimes seriously bordering on, if not outright, religious bigotry

  5. #200
    Quote Originally Posted by Prairie Sage View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by hskrdavey View Post
    Amazing...Any college professor can say whatever they want...IN THE CLASSROOM...(while being paid by us the tax payers)..... regarding their extremely liberal stances and anti-conservative views. But RB makes his comments outside the classroom on his own time (and dime)... he gets ran through the coals. Ridiculous!

    If he can't speak his beliefs on his own time....and let's even go as far to say while he is referencing his employment by UNL..., then the board of ed/regents/ whoever, needs to ensure that liberal professors not be able to influence their liberal opinions on our children that WE pay to attend their school!
    Maybe things have changed completely since I was in school, but from what I've heard from recent attendees, the business schools are still full of pretty conservative individuals. And, last I remember, they are still part of the university system taxpayers pay for. The sanctity of the shareholder is very conservative orthodoxy in most business schools. Yet, those who complain of liberals indoctrinating their children never seem to complain about that.
    Not really, I taught at UNL and taught and did PhD work at UC Irvine. Conservative ideology is still rare, and even then only apparent in the basic free market principal...economics and areas like business ethics and social responsibility allow plenty of opportunities to insert political ideologies...and more often than not they are not conservative ones.

  6. #201
    At the risk of this going off the topic, when I was a grad student at UNL in the 70's and 80's not one of my professors, and this goes to all of the subjects I took as an undergrad as well, would have been characterized as "overtly left" in their political ideologies by any of us grad students. You have to remember, that the right has so hijacked the discussion in recent years that for many of us, what you see as "overtly left" is actually just to the left of center. There were no Marxists in the department in those days, I doubt if there are now. There were some grad-students that were definitely to the left and some have stayed that way, but the faculty was not "overtly left." There were some Democrats and what you would call "liberals" but most were firmly rooted in democratic, capitalist thought. None, I repeat, none could even be remotely considered Leftists.

    And for those of you who want to argue that we have not moved to the Right, remember, many of us who are old enough to remember, hated Richard Nixon as a right wing hard liner. Today, he would be considered a left winger by many conservative Republicans. And has been pointed out in other threads the last few days, even Ronald Reagan did many things that would be considered "left" these days.

  7. #202
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    I haven't read this entire thread, but much of it over the last days. So maybe this has been brought up, maybe not. But what Brown did was not simply express his religious views on homosexuality. He traveled to Omaha specifically to try to influence a local government board to not outlaw discrimination against homosexuals. In other words, he wanted to influence this board to allow people to discriminate against homosexuals if they wanted to. He was in effect saying it should be okay to discriminate against this particular group of citizens.

    I would hope there would not be a single other person at UNL or any other institution of higher learning, rightee or leftee, that would think it is okay for anyone to promote discrimination against a particular group of law-abiding citizens.
    "Those mothers would rather see the country go down in flames than let the times change."

    -- Samuel L. Jackson

  8. #203
    Quote Originally Posted by ChitownHusker View Post
    His position about what? That atheists and agnostics are perfectly capable of living a moral life? Have you ever read the parable of the Good Samaritan?

    Or his doubts that the Bible categorically condemns homosexuality as a sin? I think he could discuss knowledgeably with you every one of the half dozen passages that mention homosexual acts and give you a reasoned, Biblically-based reason for each of his beliefs. Or perhaps he could refer you to the many passages in the Gospel that talk about forgiveness, and not judging others. Maybe he'd just read to you the Gospel story about the woman about to be stoned to death for adultery.

    The Gospels mean "Good News." I can say without any question in my mind that I don't know another person who is more effective at spreading the Good News than Luth. Here is a person who lives his faith genuinely in every thing he does. A person who ministers to those in prison. Who has started "The Table" to provide food and fellowship to people who have neither. A youth minister helping to strengthen and bolster the faith and confidence of young people. A person who can speak with people who don't share his faith with kindness and compassion. A person who reflects on the meaning of Jesus' message in every aspect of his life.

    For you to question the authenticity of his faith because it is not sufficiently Republican enough for your tastes is beyond pathetic.

    Seriously, Rick, I'd love to know -- what has LutheranHusker ever said that makes you doubt that he is a Christian?
    Luth, is that you? Oh, it's not.

    I don't doubt he's a Christian. I just wonder if the seminary is a good spot for him. I'm not in the seminary and don't need to be to remain a Christian. I'm just asking for the story behind the beliefs. If you challenge the instruction manual for preachers, there has to be a reason.

    I just don't see a lot of Ford line workers moonlighting at Chevy dealerships, know what I mean? Sure, their both jobs for American car companies, but in varying capacities.

    I'm sorry that you find an honest question and differing opinions pathetic. That is still your issue, not mine.

  9. #204
    Quote Originally Posted by LutheranHusker View Post
    At about 1 this morning as I was trying to finish up an assignment that was due, you'd better believe I was questioning why I'm at a Christian seminary.
    GOOD CALL!!! LOL

    Seriously though...I take my faith VERY seriously. I take the Bible VERY seriously. Questions of faith and life and how they intersect literally keep me up at night sometimes. My call to ministry is one that I've wrestled with for over a decade...my story in many ways is like Jonah's. Except I don't pout when God doesn't bring fire and brimstone.

    I have no problem with Christianity. I love the faith, and it informs every part of my life. At the same time, I think it's possible that those who do not share my faith are perfectly capable of developing excellent moral frameworks apart from any understanding of God. I would call that evidence of natural law, or as it was said earlier in the thread that we've been wired a certain way, but that comes from my own faith--and part of being able to call something faith is the possibility that I could be wrong. So while I try to explain where I'm coming from, at the same time I try to meet others where they are in a spirit of humility and understand where they're coming from. I've found that ironically, many times it's my atheist and agnostic brothers and sisters who are more receptor to that kind of humility than a large segment of fellow Christians.
    I'm good with that! I was just curious.

  10. #205
    Quote Originally Posted by Big Red Rick View Post
    Luth, is that you? Oh, it's not.

    I don't doubt he's a Christian. I just wonder if the seminary is a good spot for him. I'm not in the seminary and don't need to be to remain a Christian. I'm just asking for the story behind the beliefs. If you challenge the instruction manual for preachers, there has to be a reason.

    I just don't see a lot of Ford line workers moonlighting at Chevy dealerships, know what I mean? Sure, their both jobs for American car companies, but in varying capacities.
    Could you show me what part of the preacher instruction manual that Luth is challenging?

    I know a couple of other guys who spent a fair amount of time "moonlighting" with people who didn't exactly share their beliefs too.
    "The distinctive mark of the Christian, today more than ever, must be love for the poor, the weak, the suffering." Pope John Paul II


  11. #206
    Quote Originally Posted by Big Red Rick View Post

    I don't doubt he's a Christian. I just wonder if the seminary is a good spot for him. I'm not in the seminary and don't need to be to remain a Christian. I'm just asking for the story behind the beliefs. If you challenge the instruction manual for preachers, there has to be a reason.

    I just don't see a lot of Ford line workers moonlighting at Chevy dealerships, know what I mean? Sure, their both jobs for American car companies, but in varying capacities.

    I'm sorry that you find an honest question and differing opinions pathetic. That is still your issue, not mine.
    Believe me, I take the Bible VERY seriously. Don't think that because I have come to different conclusions than you on some issues about how we're called to apply what the Bible says, that I don't take it seriously or question its authority or validity. On the contrary, I take it seriously enough to continuously question its meaning, its application, to study the original languages and historical and theological context, and to try my hardest to faithfully apply it to my life and help others interpret how it applies to their lives too.

    "Always be ready to make your defense to anyone who demands from you an accounting for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and reverence." 1 Peter 3:15-16 (NRSV)

  12. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by SBHusker View Post
    Nebraska assistant says faith demands anti-gay stance.

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/201..._a15&eref=sihp
    He has no other choice.

    Otherwise, he's not "Pastor" Ron Brown but rather, "Peter who betrayed Jesus three times before the rooster crowed" Ron Brown.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    I haven't read this entire thread, but much of it over the last days. So maybe this has been brought up, maybe not. But what Brown did was not simply express his religious views on homosexuality. He traveled to Omaha specifically to try to influence a local government board to not outlaw discrimination against homosexuals. In other words, he wanted to influence this board to allow people to discriminate against homosexuals if they wanted to. He was in effect saying it should be okay to discriminate against this particular group of citizens.

    I would hope there would not be a single other person at UNL or any other institution of higher learning, rightee or leftee, that would think it is okay for anyone to promote discrimination against a particular group of law-abiding citizens.
    This sums up my thoughts on Coach Brown's activities.

    And yes, the seminary is a very good place for Luth. The Nebraska clergy community will be lucky to have him as one of their own.

  14. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by hskrdavey View Post
    Amazing...Any college professor can say whatever they want...IN THE CLASSROOM...(while being paid by us the tax payers)..... regarding their extremely liberal stances and anti-conservative views. But RB makes his comments outside the classroom on his own time (and dime)... he gets ran through the coals. Ridiculous!

    If he can't speak his beliefs on his own time....and let's even go as far to say while he is referencing his employment by UNL..., then the board of ed/regents/ whoever, needs to ensure that liberal professors not be able to influence their liberal opinions on our children that WE pay to attend their school!
    Yep.

  15. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by HuskerWheatie View Post
    Tolerant of a lot of things but increasingly intolerant of faith/belief, I'm afraid. The campus environment has changed tremendously over the past twenty years. Some of it for the better, so of it not so much so. It seems to me there is less room for respectful conversation and more tolerance of open hostility toward faith.
    Yep.





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