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Thread: Coach Brown being Coach Brown.

  1. #181
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    Amazing...Any college professor can say whatever they want...IN THE CLASSROOM...(while being paid by us the tax payers)..... regarding their extremely liberal stances and anti-conservative views. But RB makes his comments outside the classroom on his own time (and dime)... he gets ran through the coals. Ridiculous!

    If he can't speak his beliefs on his own time....and let's even go as far to say while he is referencing his employment by UNL..., then the board of ed/regents/ whoever, needs to ensure that liberal professors not be able to influence their liberal opinions on our children that WE pay to attend their school!

  2. #182
    Quote Originally Posted by Big Red Rick View Post
    Not quite sure how an expression of faith/belief is embarrassing to the university. I thought those places were bastions of tolerance. Am I wrong?
    Tolerant of a lot of things but increasingly intolerant of faith/belief, I'm afraid. The campus environment has changed tremendously over the past twenty years. Some of it for the better, so of it not so much so. It seems to me there is less room for respectful conversation and more tolerance of open hostility toward faith.

  3. #183
    Quote Originally Posted by hskrdavey View Post
    Amazing...Any college professor can say whatever they want...IN THE CLASSROOM...(while being paid by us the tax payers)..... regarding their extremely liberal stances and anti-conservative views. But RB makes his comments outside the classroom on his own time (and dime)... he gets ran through the coals. Ridiculous!

    If he can't speak his beliefs on his own time....and let's even go as far to say while he is referencing his employment by UNL..., then the board of ed/regents/ whoever, needs to ensure that liberal professors not be able to influence their liberal opinions on our children that WE pay to attend their school!
    sigh. thanks for sharing your thoughts.

  4. #184
    Quote Originally Posted by Big Red Rick View Post
    Have you ever questioned why you are at a Christian seminary? I'm not being a jerk, or cute, or anything other than serious. I wonder what your problem is with Christianity when you seek to be a purveyor of it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Big Red Rick View Post
    No, I think inspiration for a good life can come from anywhere. But what we consider "secular" morals still have a base in a belief in God, whether people want to accept that or not. I'm just asking an honest question. Or, if there is an old thread link which explains why Luth went to the seminary, I'd be happy to read it. I'm just trying to find understanding for his position.
    His position about what? That atheists and agnostics are perfectly capable of living a moral life? Have you ever read the parable of the Good Samaritan?

    Or his doubts that the Bible categorically condemns homosexuality as a sin? I think he could discuss knowledgeably with you every one of the half dozen passages that mention homosexual acts and give you a reasoned, Biblically-based reason for each of his beliefs. Or perhaps he could refer you to the many passages in the Gospel that talk about forgiveness, and not judging others. Maybe he'd just read to you the Gospel story about the woman about to be stoned to death for adultery.

    The Gospels mean "Good News." I can say without any question in my mind that I don't know another person who is more effective at spreading the Good News than Luth. Here is a person who lives his faith genuinely in every thing he does. A person who ministers to those in prison. Who has started "The Table" to provide food and fellowship to people who have neither. A youth minister helping to strengthen and bolster the faith and confidence of young people. A person who can speak with people who don't share his faith with kindness and compassion. A person who reflects on the meaning of Jesus' message in every aspect of his life.

    For you to question the authenticity of his faith because it is not sufficiently Republican enough for your tastes is beyond pathetic.

    Seriously, Rick, I'd love to know -- what has LutheranHusker ever said that makes you doubt that he is a Christian?
    "The distinctive mark of the Christian, today more than ever, must be love for the poor, the weak, the suffering." Pope John Paul II


  5. #185
    Quote Originally Posted by bilsker View Post
    I should have been more clear. Sure, professors "represent" the university. But nobody really cares what a sociology professor thinks about gay marriage, flag burning, pot holes and taxes.

    Brown is using his position to lend credibility to his views. In this case he should keep a low profile. Especially when media outlets come calling.
    Again, I disagree. A professor has a captive audience of students that s/he can strongly influence with their views and they certainly use their position to lend credibility to their views. Richard Dawkins is a good example. He uses his position at Oxford to pretend to be an authority on the existence of God. I'm pretty sure all of Dawkins' books tout his background as an evolutionary biologist to lend authority to his arguments. You might argue RB is a football coach and should restrict his comments to football, but again Dawkins is an example. He's an evolutionary biologist without training in philosophy or theology whose books are essentially about philosophy and theology. I understand where you're coming from but trying to distinguish Brown from the typical roles taken by professors doesn't hold water.

  6. #186
    Quote Originally Posted by hskrdavey View Post
    Amazing...Any college professor can say whatever they want...IN THE CLASSROOM...(while being paid by us the tax payers)..... regarding their extremely liberal stances and anti-conservative views. But RB makes his comments outside the classroom on his own time (and dime)... he gets ran through the coals. Ridiculous!

    If he can't speak his beliefs on his own time....and let's even go as far to say while he is referencing his employment by UNL..., then the board of ed/regents/ whoever, needs to ensure that liberal professors not be able to influence their liberal opinions on our children that WE pay to attend their school!
    Maybe things have changed completely since I was in school, but from what I've heard from recent attendees, the business schools are still full of pretty conservative individuals. And, last I remember, they are still part of the university system taxpayers pay for. The sanctity of the shareholder is very conservative orthodoxy in most business schools. Yet, those who complain of liberals indoctrinating their children never seem to complain about that.

  7. #187
    Quote Originally Posted by hskrdavey View Post
    Amazing...Any college professor can say whatever they want...IN THE CLASSROOM...(while being paid by us the tax payers)..... regarding their extremely liberal stances and anti-conservative views. But RB makes his comments outside the classroom on his own time (and dime)... he gets ran through the coals. Ridiculous!

    If he can't speak his beliefs on his own time....and let's even go as far to say while he is referencing his employment by UNL..., then the board of ed/regents/ whoever, needs to ensure that liberal professors not be able to influence their liberal opinions on our children that WE pay to attend their school!
    It's best to train our children to think critically so they can spot BS when they see it. If they don't get bombarded with weird ideas from professors, they'll be exposed to them in other strange places, like football messenger boards!

  8. #188
    At some point it is difficult to keep personal beliefs from influencing how a person teaches. I try to preface anything that is my opinion by saying so, but I'm sure my views on my field result in nuances in what I teach.

  9. #189
    And just so you understand the concept, when I taught Political Science at the University of Nebraska I used very liberal textbooks, Democracy for the Few, by Michael Parenti and also Manufacturing Consent by Noam Chomsky. I used these textbooks to expose the students to arguments they would otherwise have never read, seen or heard. Some of my students thought I was a left wing commie, others understood that seeing the world from a different point of view was a valuable experience.

  10. #190
    Quote Originally Posted by Big Red Rick View Post
    Have you ever questioned why you are at a Christian seminary? I'm not being a jerk, or cute, or anything other than serious. I wonder what your problem is with Christianity when you seek to be a purveyor of it.
    At about 1 this morning as I was trying to finish up an assignment that was due, you'd better believe I was questioning why I'm at a Christian seminary.

    Seriously though...I take my faith VERY seriously. I take the Bible VERY seriously. Questions of faith and life and how they intersect literally keep me up at night sometimes. My call to ministry is one that I've wrestled with for over a decade...my story in many ways is like Jonah's. Except I don't pout when God doesn't bring fire and brimstone.

    I have no problem with Christianity. I love the faith, and it informs every part of my life. At the same time, I think it's possible that those who do not share my faith are perfectly capable of developing excellent moral frameworks apart from any understanding of God. I would call that evidence of natural law, or as it was said earlier in the thread that we've been wired a certain way, but that comes from my own faith--and part of being able to call something faith is the possibility that I could be wrong. So while I try to explain where I'm coming from, at the same time I try to meet others where they are in a spirit of humility and understand where they're coming from. I've found that ironically, many times it's my atheist and agnostic brothers and sisters who are more receptor to that kind of humility than a large segment of fellow Christians.

    "Always be ready to make your defense to anyone who demands from you an accounting for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and reverence." 1 Peter 3:15-16 (NRSV)

  11. #191
    Quote Originally Posted by Prairie Sage View Post
    others understood that seeing the world from a different point of view was a valuable experience.
    That's a huge part of the college experience. be able to discern, discuss, observe and see things through different prisms rather than just one perspective.

  12. #192
    Quote Originally Posted by HuskerWheatie View Post
    It's best to train our children to think critically so they can spot BS when they see it. If they don't get bombarded with weird ideas from professors, they'll be exposed to them in other strange places, like football messenger boards!
    Well said. Ideally, education helps train us how to think and reason through things, rather than what to think.

    "Always be ready to make your defense to anyone who demands from you an accounting for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and reverence." 1 Peter 3:15-16 (NRSV)

  13. #193
    Quote Originally Posted by LutheranHusker View Post
    Well said. Ideally, education helps train us how to think and reason through things, rather than what to think.
    yes.

  14. #194
    Quote Originally Posted by Huskers57 View Post
    That's a huge part of the college experience. be able to discern, discuss, observe and see things through different prisms rather than just one perspective.
    I agree. I was being flippant when I said something about weird ideas from professors. There is value in being exposed to new ideas. The harder, more important part, is wrestling with those ideas to assess their value and validity which is, again, where the critical thinking skills come in to play.

  15. #195
    Quote Originally Posted by HuskerWheatie View Post
    I agree. I was being flippant when I said something about weird ideas from professors. There is value in being exposed to new ideas. The harder, more important part, is wrestling with those ideas to assess their value and validity which is, again, where the critical thinking skills come in to play.
    that is what all universities/colleges of all genres strive to do...help one develop critical thinking skills-I think that is the most important element of going on to higher learning. JIMO.

  16. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by SealBeachHusker View Post
    I agree to some extent, but honestly believe he did not intend to be coy, and think he's pretty aware of the concerns of speaking about faith.

    http://m.journalstar.com/news/state-...cc4c002e0.html

    "When he knows he’s going to share his faith, he said, he asks the school to make attendance optional."

    And, still believe as faculty he should be afforded the same right to advocate his opinions as are professors with controversial views and ideas.
    I agree with you mostly. It's even possible that he simply forgot to add the disclaimer when he spoke to the City Council. So when Perlman said publicly Brown doesn't speak for the University on that, and tells Brown to remember the disclaimer next time, and Brown says OK, everything is good and well. I would just as soon everyone went right back to doing what they were doing. I love having Brown on staff.

    And it's not a cardinal sin that he talked to AP about how it would be OK if he is martyred. But it's poor judgment. That is, if he doesn't want to unnecessarily put his employer in a difficult position, or even make it more likely that at some point in the future he actually will have to be asked to leave.

    College football isn't like a Philosophy class. 80,000 people don't show up for anyone's political science class. The football program represent the university in an entirely different way. I am proud, and it is a cornerstone of my fan status, that Nebraska a program generally with character, and its coaches see character development as a key purpose. And even though I am not religious, I am proud of the way some of the coaches, like TO and Ron Brown use their faith as a motivator for that. I believe in colleges as places where quality people expose young people to important ideas and values, even those I don't agree with it.

    But to the degree Ron Brown's actions put the homosexuality issue in the national spotlight, he adds to the weight of evidence that might be used in a lawsuit against the school over non-discrimination laws.

    He also sullies a spectator sport that brings Nebraskans together. It is of no concern of mine that some fan I may sit next to in the stadium believes homosexuality is a sin and I don't. If Abdullah runs back a kick, we're going to be cheering and smiling and high fiving. If Ron Brown feels he has to drag Cornhusker football into the grungy world of politics by creating a strong national identity on this, then I don't support what he is doing to my football team.
    "It just shows that we're changing the program," Petteway said. "Coach Miles and the guys we have on our staff and our players, we're changing the culture of Nebraska basketball, and this is just the beginning for us." - HuskerOnline.com 2-16-2014

  17. #197
    Also, when I was teaching, I would take the last day to specifically express my personal opinions and stated that they were my personal opinions. One thing I always stated was "Beware of Dogma. Beware of those who say they possess the Truth." In fact I usually wrote those very words on the board. To me, life is a learning experience. When you are convinced you have the answers, that you know the Truth, you are no longer learning, no longer growing as a human being.

    Yes, Grasshopper, life is a journey...

  18. #198
    Quote Originally Posted by ChitownHusker View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Big Red Rick View Post
    Have you ever questioned why you are at a Christian seminary? I'm not being a jerk, or cute, or anything other than serious. I wonder what your problem is with Christianity when you seek to be a purveyor of it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Big Red Rick View Post
    No, I think inspiration for a good life can come from anywhere. But what we consider "secular" morals still have a base in a belief in God, whether people want to accept that or not. I'm just asking an honest question. Or, if there is an old thread link which explains why Luth went to the seminary, I'd be happy to read it. I'm just trying to find understanding for his position.
    His position about what? That atheists and agnostics are perfectly capable of living a moral life? Have you ever read the parable of the Good Samaritan?

    Or his doubts that the Bible categorically condemns homosexuality as a sin? I think he could discuss knowledgeably with you every one of the half dozen passages that mention homosexual acts and give you a reasoned, Biblically-based reason for each of his beliefs. Or perhaps he could refer you to the many passages in the Gospel that talk about forgiveness, and not judging others. Maybe he'd just read to you the Gospel story about the woman about to be stoned to death for adultery.

    The Gospels mean "Good News." I can say without any question in my mind that I don't know another person who is more effective at spreading the Good News than Luth. Here is a person who lives his faith genuinely in every thing he does. A person who ministers to those in prison. Who has started "The Table" to provide food and fellowship to people who have neither. A youth minister helping to strengthen and bolster the faith and confidence of young people. A person who can speak with people who don't share his faith with kindness and compassion. A person who reflects on the meaning of Jesus' message in every aspect of his life.

    For you to question the authenticity of his faith because it is not sufficiently Republican enough for your tastes is beyond pathetic.

    Seriously, Rick, I'd love to know -- what has LutheranHusker ever said that makes you doubt that he is a Christian?
    Absolutely agree, there are myriad issues and positions that Christians disagree on, and it's always been odd to me that this one would inspire so much anger and animosity. Taking the lords name in vain is a sin, many Christians interpret cussing as a sin...do they have vial disgust for those that cuss? How about drinking alcohol to excess...a sin to many people. Or, porn and overtly sexual behaviors?

    People have read my opinions here regarding preserving traditional marriage. As Christians we witness to others by being an example and by sharing Gods word, not simply condemning people. People of other faiths may worship a different god than I do...breaking the first of the ten commandments. Shouldn't stop Christians from being loving, caring and respectful of them.

    That being said, I think sharing ones faith and beliefs should be respected as well if it is done in a thoughtful way without anger and animosity.

  19. #199
    Quote Originally Posted by Huskers57 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Prairie Sage View Post
    others understood that seeing the world from a different point of view was a valuable experience.
    That's a huge part of the college experience. be able to discern, discuss, observe and see things through different prisms rather than just one perspective.
    I would contend, though, that there is seldom a lack of left leaning points of view at a vast majority of universities.

    Also taught at UNL, and even in the college of business there was an abundance of overtly left leaning political ideologies...sometimes seriously bordering on, if not outright, religious bigotry

  20. #200
    Quote Originally Posted by Prairie Sage View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by hskrdavey View Post
    Amazing...Any college professor can say whatever they want...IN THE CLASSROOM...(while being paid by us the tax payers)..... regarding their extremely liberal stances and anti-conservative views. But RB makes his comments outside the classroom on his own time (and dime)... he gets ran through the coals. Ridiculous!

    If he can't speak his beliefs on his own time....and let's even go as far to say while he is referencing his employment by UNL..., then the board of ed/regents/ whoever, needs to ensure that liberal professors not be able to influence their liberal opinions on our children that WE pay to attend their school!
    Maybe things have changed completely since I was in school, but from what I've heard from recent attendees, the business schools are still full of pretty conservative individuals. And, last I remember, they are still part of the university system taxpayers pay for. The sanctity of the shareholder is very conservative orthodoxy in most business schools. Yet, those who complain of liberals indoctrinating their children never seem to complain about that.
    Not really, I taught at UNL and taught and did PhD work at UC Irvine. Conservative ideology is still rare, and even then only apparent in the basic free market principal...economics and areas like business ethics and social responsibility allow plenty of opportunities to insert political ideologies...and more often than not they are not conservative ones.


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