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Thread: Coach Brown being Coach Brown.

  1. #261
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChitownHusker View Post
    Well, just as the courts do with the equal protection clause, we can't grant protected status to every single class that requests it. And the more that a class of people is defined by something other than an immutable characteristic, the less legitimate it is. Employers ought to be able to discriminate on the basis of poor hygiene, or bad grades, or inappropriate behavior in the work place, or any one of many characteristics that are perfectly legitimate considerations for employers.
    You are arguing that for many (most?) gays, their homosexuality is less immutable than is the heterosexuality for many (most?) straights, are you?
    "Those mothers would rather see the country go down in flames than let the times change."

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  2. #262
    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    You are arguing that for many (most?) gays, their homosexuality is more immutable than is the heterosexuality for many (most?) straights, are you?
    No, sexual orientation is definitely immutable in the sense that it is not chosen or subject to change. But it is also not readily apparent in the sense that race or ethnicity can be, and that is an important distinction.
    "The distinctive mark of the Christian, today more than ever, must be love for the poor, the weak, the suffering." Pope John Paul II


  3. #263
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChitownHusker View Post
    No sexual orientation is definitely immutable in the sense that it is not chosen or subject to change. But it is also not readily apparent in the sense that race or ethnicity can be, and that is an important distinction.
    I will grant that it is a distinction, but not that it is anywhere near important enough to differentiate protected class status between race and sexual orientation.
    "Those mothers would rather see the country go down in flames than let the times change."

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  4. #264
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squatchsker View Post
    The first time I saw a penis

  5. #265
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    Quote Originally Posted by HuskerWheatie View Post
    I understand that and agree that sexual orientation is not a conscious choice. But the moral aspect of the question is much more complex. Do people consciously choose to be alcoholics or obsessive clean freaks or over-concerned with what others think of them or whatever behavior you want to consider? Most folks find themselves in those situations as the result of past wounds and trying to fill voids that should never have existed in their lives. Some of those conditions may be more acceptable to society than others, but they aren't necessarily healthy. I see homosexuality in that way. The research indicates a strong, though not perfect, correlation with some negative childhood experiences (rejection by same sex parent-real or perceived, sexual abuse, etc). I believe that person deserves respect, love and kindness, but it doesn't necessarily mean we should celebrate that condition as normal or healthy.
    do you believe we are born to hate or raised to hate. lets take a child. I will use a child that I know first hand. I very cute little boy given birth by a lesbian. They chose the father and used him just as some fathers in the heterosexual world are chosen as sperm donors. this boy is above intelligence, very well cared for, very friendly (except to cats with outrageous mustaches, I use to freak him out) anyways with he be wounded ...yet to be determined. he is treated just like any other little boy, plays rough, love cars trucks all of it. Both his mothers make sure he follows his own path with no influence from them as far as sexual orientation goes. the he is only 4 and only one case. I guess my point is, be a responsible parent does not mean being heterosexual it means just that...responsible for another life and doing the very best they/we know how. Trust me this lil one has plenty of male influence, again making sure they are doing the right thing...since no child comes with a ...how to book


    I cannot be bought, compromised, detoured, lured away, turned back, deluded, or delayed. I will not flinch in the face of sacrifice, hesitate in the presence of adversity, negotiate at the table of the enemy, ponder at the pool of popularity, or meander in the maze of mediocrity.I wont give up, shut up, let up, until I have stayed up, stored up, prayed up, paid up, and showed up for all wounded children.

  6. #266
    Quote Originally Posted by Showman View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by wcbsas View Post
    Every choice we make in life has some discrimination.

    For example, when you hire a person for a position. You have a pool of candidates to chose from. The differences (education, experience, appearance, non-verbal communication, speaking skills ...) all are valid reasons to discriminate between one individual over another.
    Those are valid reasons to make a hire/no hire decision; sexual orientation should have no bearing on any job I can think of.
    In most states an employer is allowed to use criminal history in considering job placement. You are then "discriminating" based on an assessment of someone's moral character...if you are an adherent to the notion that homosexuality is a sin and you believe someone is behaving in manner that puts them in state of continuous sin, isn't it a similar type "discrimination" based on an assessment of their moral character?

    Personally, I would have no problem...I work with tons of gay people. And, even though I believe they are likely not living the life God wants of us...I also believe those who don't hold holy the sabbath, and bear false witness are doing the same thing...sinning like
    the rest of us. Yet, I can associate and respect others who might commit sin.

    I don't agree with those that have such an irrational fear of homosexuality that they feel a need to be angry and spiteful, but I also think organizations and people should be able to operate freely from being forced to accommodate behaviors they might have strong moral issues with.

  7. #267
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    Quote Originally Posted by HuskerWheatie View Post
    I believe that person deserves respect, love and kindness, but it doesn't necessarily mean we should celebrate that condition as normal or healthy.
    It looks like we've finally gotten down to brass tacks.
    "Those mothers would rather see the country go down in flames than let the times change."

    -- Samuel L. Jackson

  8. #268
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    Quote Originally Posted by HuskerWheatie View Post
    You're wanting to compare the most dysfunctional of heterosexual couples to some idealized same sex couple. There is no ambiguity in the research. The healthiest homes for children are characterized by a having a father and mother in the home in a healthy, functional relationship.
    Not the most dysfunctional couples at all.
    Abuse has sky rocketed in this country...why? and thats only reported cases.


    I cannot be bought, compromised, detoured, lured away, turned back, deluded, or delayed. I will not flinch in the face of sacrifice, hesitate in the presence of adversity, negotiate at the table of the enemy, ponder at the pool of popularity, or meander in the maze of mediocrity.I wont give up, shut up, let up, until I have stayed up, stored up, prayed up, paid up, and showed up for all wounded children.

  9. #269
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    Quote Originally Posted by SealBeachHusker View Post
    In most states an employer is allowed to use criminal history in considering job placement. You are then "discriminating" based on an assessment of someone's moral character...if you are an adherent to the notion that homosexuality is a sin and you believe someone is behaving in manner that puts them in state of continuous sin, isn't it a similar type "discrimination" based on an assessment of their moral character?

    Personally, I would have no problem...I work with tons of gay people. And, even though I believe they are likely not living the life God wants of us...I also believe those who don't hold holy the sabbath, and bear false witness are doing the same thing...sinning like
    the rest of us. Yet, I can associate and respect others who might commit sin.

    I don't agree with those that have such an irrational fear of homosexuality that they feel a need to be angry and spiteful, but I also think organizations and people should be able to operate freely from being forced to accommodate behaviors they might have strong moral issues with.

    where does the sex police stop?...and why/


    I cannot be bought, compromised, detoured, lured away, turned back, deluded, or delayed. I will not flinch in the face of sacrifice, hesitate in the presence of adversity, negotiate at the table of the enemy, ponder at the pool of popularity, or meander in the maze of mediocrity.I wont give up, shut up, let up, until I have stayed up, stored up, prayed up, paid up, and showed up for all wounded children.

  10. #270
    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Squatchsker View Post
    I am pretty sure if they would have asked the kids they would have went to a home.
    Yes, pretty weak of Wheatie to put no blame on the organization with the bias who chose not to put the kids in the homes.
    So, the state will allow you to assist and help others only if you accept the states version of morality? Wow, that's very scary.

  11. #271
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    Quote Originally Posted by HuskerWheatie View Post
    You're wanting to compare the most dysfunctional of heterosexual couples to some idealized same sex couple. There is no ambiguity in the research. The healthiest homes for children are characterized by a having a father and mother in the home in a healthy, functional relationship.
    It's a precarious argument you are making here. I am not familiar with the studies you are referring to and don't disagree with the results. But I am wondering what the real conclusion should be. In other words, are these the most healthy homes because this is what is seen as normal and the way things should be? So if you don't fall into that group you are seen as different in society and therefore have more adversity to face? I guess what I am getting at, is it's not necessarily less healthy because it's a "gay household" but rather just different and less common and generally more looked down upon from outside. If society's view of gay households was completey mainstream and accepted how would the studies results be different? Maybe they wouldn't, but then again, maybe they would.

    "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." -Carl Sagan


  12. #272
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Impaler View Post
    It's a precarious argument you are making here. I am not familiar with the studies you are referring to and don't disagree with the results. But I am wondering what the real conclusion should be. In other words, are these the most healthy homes because this is what is seen as normal and the way things should be? So if you don't fall into that group you are seen as different in society and therefore have more adversity to face? I guess what I am getting at, is it's not necessarily less healthy because it's a "gay household" but rather just different and less common and generally more looked down upon from outside. If society's view of gay households was completey mainstream and accepted how would the studies results be different? Maybe they wouldn't, but then again, maybe they would.

    you make to much sense for this place...stay away, before its to late!


    I cannot be bought, compromised, detoured, lured away, turned back, deluded, or delayed. I will not flinch in the face of sacrifice, hesitate in the presence of adversity, negotiate at the table of the enemy, ponder at the pool of popularity, or meander in the maze of mediocrity.I wont give up, shut up, let up, until I have stayed up, stored up, prayed up, paid up, and showed up for all wounded children.

  13. #273
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    I find it so sad that some distinguish discrimination against gays from discrimination against Blacks because being homosexual is a behavior, and being Black is simply a skin color. But does anyone really believe that Blacks are discriminated against by anybody in this country because of their skin color? It is the Blacks' behavior that is different from Whites', not their skin color, that makes them deemed to be undesirable to some small minded non-Blacks: traditions, music, speech, food, dress, history, etc. I think all of us participating in this thread believe that discrimination against Blacks is unacceptable under any circumstances. But yet, there are some on this thread that still cling to the thought that discrimination against homosexuals is alright because homosexuals' "behavior" is different than the norm of the majority.

    That's a cop out.
    "Those mothers would rather see the country go down in flames than let the times change."

    -- Samuel L. Jackson

  14. #274
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    Quote Originally Posted by SealBeachHusker View Post
    So, the state will allow you to assist and help others only if you accept the states version of morality? Wow, that's very scary.
    No, I never said that the state was blameless. Only that the organization was not blameless.
    "Those mothers would rather see the country go down in flames than let the times change."

    -- Samuel L. Jackson

  15. #275
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    nut, I'm disappointed. So ... even if a gay person is born that way, you believe that person can be discriminated against if he/she chooses to engage in sexual relations at any time during his/her lifetime? Are you kidding me? Everyone else on the planet can have sexual relations, including animals, but gays can be discriminated against for it? Come on, man!
    I don't know if gays are born that way or not, nor do I need to know for my argument to hold up. Even if they are born that way in terms of preferences, they are in control of their behavior, so it is intelligible for a religion to declare the behavior a sin. Skin color obviously is not. That's why I think it is reasonable to let people differ on their religious views on this point. And since I am confining this exemption to religious organizations, and closely held companies (making me more conservative than Chitown on this point perhaps ), I think this approach preserves both religious freedom and gives gays protected status in most of the economy.

    Or do you think it is appropriate to define for someone else what they should think is a sin?
    "It just shows that we're changing the program," Petteway said. "Coach Miles and the guys we have on our staff and our players, we're changing the culture of Nebraska basketball, and this is just the beginning for us." - HuskerOnline.com 2-16-2014

  16. #276
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    I find it so sad that some distinguish discrimination against gays from discrimination against Blacks because being homosexual is a behavior, and being Black is simply a skin color. But does anyone really believe that Blacks are discriminated against by anybody in this country because of their skin color? It is the Blacks' behavior that is different from Whites', not their skin color, that makes them deemed to be undesirable to some small minded non-Blacks: traditions, music, speech, food, dress, history, etc. I think all of us participating in this thread believe that discrimination against Blacks is unacceptable under any circumstances. But yet, there are some on this thread that still cling to the thought that discrimination against homosexuals is alright because homosexuals' "behavior" is different than the norm of the majority.

    That's a cop out.
    That's nothing more than an assertion introduced by back-handed claim of moral superiority ("I find it sad"). Surely you can do better than that.
    "It just shows that we're changing the program," Petteway said. "Coach Miles and the guys we have on our staff and our players, we're changing the culture of Nebraska basketball, and this is just the beginning for us." - HuskerOnline.com 2-16-2014

  17. #277
    Quote Originally Posted by ChitownHusker:923934
    Quote Originally Posted by Big Red Rick View Post
    Based on his comments earlier in the thread, Luth seems to be calling out Ron Brown and other Christians who, in Luth's opinion, misinterpret the Bible in the case of homosexuality. Unless I read it wrong. But Luth and I are discussing, so I will let him state his points.

    So it violates the preacher instruction manual for one Christian to disagree with another Christian about an issue of Biblical interpretation? I'd never heard that before. Should Luth also consider leaving the seminary if, for instance, he decides to disagree with Fred Phelps and his brand of Christianity?
    Why are you attacking me? Lutheran and I seem to be getting along famously despite having a difference of opinion. I asked a question, he answered and we moved on. Let it go man.

  18. #278
    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    I find it so sad that some distinguish discrimination against gays from discrimination against Blacks because being homosexual is a behavior, and being Black is simply a skin color. But does anyone really believe that Blacks are discriminated against by anybody in this country because of their skin color? It is the Blacks' behavior that is different from Whites', not their skin color, that makes them deemed to be undesirable to some small minded non-Blacks: traditions, music, speech, food, dress, history, etc. I think all of us participating in this thread believe that discrimination against Blacks is unacceptable under any circumstances. But yet, there are some on this thread that still cling to the thought that discrimination against homosexuals is alright because homosexuals' "behavior" is different than the norm of the majority.

    That's a cop out.
    An irrational belief of a predisposition for bad behavior based on someone's race is prejudiced...as the color of someone's skin does not influence their physical propensity to, say, commit crime. On the other hand, It's a logical assumption that a gay person is practicing behavior and advocating for behaviors some people equate to a serious sin.

  19. #279
    Yes Scarlet. where is the tolerance for coach Brown's views? Sounds like you don't have any for him. Or am I misreading your posts?

  20. #280
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    Quote Originally Posted by huskernut View Post
    That's nothing more than an assertion introduced by back-handed claim of moral superiority ("I find it sad"). Surely you can do better than that.
    Your interpretation of my post is incorrect. What I find sad is that homosexuals continue to be discriminated against simply because one aspect of who they are is different than the majority's.
    "Those mothers would rather see the country go down in flames than let the times change."

    -- Samuel L. Jackson


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