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Thread: A piece on Atheists

  1. #46
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    Red_in_Blue_Land's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BasilLongfellow View Post
    My understanding of the Bill of Rights is that citizens have a freedom of choice with respect to religion, but no freedom from religion.
    Can you explain your understanding?
    "The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities." Ayn Rand

    "Hillary has been cheated on more than a blind woman playing Scrabble. With gypsies." Dennis Miller

  2. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Red_in_Blue_Land View Post
    Can you explain your understanding?
    I can only give a cursory explanation. I'm not a Constitutional law attorney and outside of due process, I don't have a whole lot of depth of knowledge. Essentially, my understanding is based upon a textual argument encompassed within the greater 18th century societal considerations, namely the Declaration of Independence and puritanical beliefs that influenced the founding fathers. In addition, the religion jurisprudence of SCOTUS largely addresses evaluating whether a set of beliefs is a legitimate religion and preventing the state from establishing religion. The jurisprudence does not inhibit private citizens from forming religions nor insulating non-believers from the believers, i.e. Westboro Baptist, the line of Indian peyote cases. In the cases I remember, SCOTUS does not address a religion's opponent's grievances with a said religion as an avenue to place restraints on the religion.

  3. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Red_in_Blue_Land View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by BasilLongfellow View Post
    My understanding of the Bill of Rights is that citizens have a freedom of choice with respect to religion, but no freedom from religion.
    Can you explain your understanding?
    Do you believe the intent of the founding fathers was that America be free from all acknowledgment of faith as Atheist groups would interpret?

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by huskernut View Post
    At least they're funny nerds. That counts for something.
    Quote Originally Posted by RedPhoenix View Post
    Totally!
    Quote Originally Posted by ColoREDo View Post
    I ummm....what?

    LOL!

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  5. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by SealBeachHusker View Post
    Do you believe the intent of the founding fathers was that America be free from all acknowledgment of faith as Atheist groups would interpret?
    No.

  6. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by SealBeachHusker View Post
    Do you believe the intent of the founding fathers was that America be free from all acknowledgment of faith as Atheist groups would interpret?
    Our coins belie that position.

  7. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by BasilLongfellow View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by SealBeachHusker View Post
    Do you believe the intent of the founding fathers was that America be free from all acknowledgment of faith as Atheist groups would interpret?
    Our coins belie that position.
    So, it is not the position of atheist groups to have references to God removed from coins? (using your example)

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/7426824/Atheist-in-battle-to-remove-In-God-We-Trust-from-US-currency.html

  8. #53
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    ColoREDo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BasilLongfellow View Post
    Our coins belie that position.
    "God" was added to currency and the pledge of allegiance in the 50's thanks mostly to the "red scare" of McCarthyism. Its also a pretty generic term since it could represent any of the thousands of Gods out there.
    “Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones.”

  9. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by ColoREDo View Post
    "God" was added to currency and the pledge of allegiance in the 50's thanks mostly to the "red scare" of McCarthyism. Its also a pretty generic term since it could represent any of the thousands of Gods out there.
    Agree. The generality emphasizes my point that there is not freedom from religion, simply freedom of religion.

  10. #55
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    Red_in_Blue_Land's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BasilLongfellow View Post
    I can only give a cursory explanation. I'm not a Constitutional law attorney and outside of due process, I don't have a whole lot of depth of knowledge. Essentially, my understanding is based upon a textual argument encompassed within the greater 18th century societal considerations, namely the Declaration of Independence and puritanical beliefs that influenced the founding fathers. In addition, the religion jurisprudence of SCOTUS largely addresses evaluating whether a set of beliefs is a legitimate religion and preventing the state from establishing religion. The jurisprudence does not inhibit private citizens from forming religions nor insulating non-believers from the believers, i.e. Westboro Baptist, the line of Indian peyote cases. In the cases I remember, SCOTUS does not address a religion's opponent's grievances with a said religion as an avenue to place restraints on the religion.
    I had to step out for a while, an old friend showed up and we had to go do a couple of shots...

    Now that I am a little oiled up I would like to discuss this, I had never looked at some of those cases for that theme, in fact I never really thought about it that way. My first reaction was that courts tell us that we can't have prayer in school, etc..., but in the perspective you are suggesting that was not a restraint to the religion itself.
    "The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities." Ayn Rand

    "Hillary has been cheated on more than a blind woman playing Scrabble. With gypsies." Dennis Miller

  11. #56
    pray for me ;)
    ColoREDo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BasilLongfellow View Post
    Agree. The generality emphasizes my point that there is not freedom from religion, simply freedom of religion.
    When someone says that there is no "freedom from religion" it sounds like I have to worship something. Go Huskers!
    “Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones.”

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red_in_Blue_Land View Post
    I had to step out for a while, an old friend showed up and we had to go do a couple of shots...

    Now that I am a little oiled up I would like to discuss this, I had never looked at some of those cases for that theme, in fact I never really thought about it that way. My first reaction was that courts tell us that we can't have prayer in school, etc..., but in the perspective you are suggesting that was not a restraint to the religion itself.
    People can still pray in school.

  13. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by BasilLongfellow View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ColoREDo View Post
    "God" was added to currency and the pledge of allegiance in the 50's thanks mostly to the "red scare" of McCarthyism. Its also a pretty generic term since it could represent any of the thousands of Gods out there.
    Agree. The generality emphasizes my point that there is not freedom from religion, simply freedom of religion.
    Yet that is not the position of most atheist groups, again acknowledging these groups don't represent all atheists, but these ARE the ones bringing lawsuit after lawsuit to erase any and all references to faith within any entity no matter how flimsy the tie to government.

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by huskernut View Post
    At least they're funny nerds. That counts for something.
    As long as you're laughing with us and not at us...

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by ColoREDo View Post
    When someone says that there is no "freedom from religion" it sounds like I have to worship something. Go Huskers!
    I understand where Basil is coming from though. You don't have to worship anything but by the same token you can't silence those that do.







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