How We All Got Stuck Paying the Medical Bills of the Woman Who Sued to Kill Obamacare

[CornfieldCounty]

I don't know you tell me....I suspect you'll find quite a few folks who just chose not to by health insurance or could not afford it....

I was hoping you would not stop and actually find the answer for yourself.. Bankruptcies and no health care are but a small piece of the pie, let alone what Obamacare would actually cover. But I am sure you all knew that before you like to bang on the "Hypocritical Righties Drum".

[Red Reign]

You asked the question....so yeah it would make sense to do your own research before asking...sort of like reading the article before commenting....

I'm not banging on any drum nor did I bring any ideological view into it....you did that....not me...I was simply trying to have a nice conversation/debate on this subject...

Okay tell us what the Affordable Health Care Act covers...as pertains to this....

I was hoping you would not stop and actually find the answer for yourself.. Bankruptcies and no health care are but a small piece of the pie, let alone what Obamacare would actually cover. But I am sure you all knew that before you like to bang on the "Hypocritical Righties Drum".

[CornfieldCounty]

You asked the question....so yeah it would make sense to do your own research before asking...sort of like reading the article before commenting....

I did, and I know the answers, just making sure no one jumped to any hypociritical points

I'm not banging on any drum nor did I bring any ideological view into it....you did that....not me...I was simply trying to have a nice conversation/debate on this subject...

and don't expect this to be the last time you hear a story like this either....

God Bless her.....

Subtle inferences aside, right?

Okay tell us what the Affordable Health Care Act covers...as pertains to this....

Something about all of those uninsured/underinsured, but I guess you missed that part of the article

The most recent National Health Interview Survey by the Centers for Disease Control makes that abundantly clear. According to the CDC's survey, released last week, one in three Americans say their medical bills are a "financial burden." And it is not just the uninsured. More than a fourth of those with private insurance said they were struggling with medical debt. That's because insurers and employers are moving more and more of us into limited benefit or high-deductible plans. Why? Because of the absurd cost-shifting that is the hallmark of the U.S. health care system.

If just one relatively small hospital in Panama City, Florida, has $30 million in "uncompensated" care every year, think of what the total amount is for all hospitals and doctors in this country.

Now do you see why we have to get everybody covered? Mary Brown might have avoided paying those medical bills by filing for bankruptcy, but that doesn't mean the rest of us are off the hook.

[Red Reign]

BELOW...

I did, and I know the answers, just making sure no one jumped to any hypociritical points

Could have fooled me by the question you asked in post #4..... A few people then pointed out to you what you would have already known had you taken the time to read the article....

Like I said I have no drum to bang in this fight....I have military health care (which is awesome by the way)...and FWIW my dad is a conservative and my best and dearest friend/best man is a conservative as is my older sister etc. etc.....I have no problem with that.....makes for interesting discussions and a chance to learn from each other....which is a lost art today....instead of throwing around snarky ideolgical comments....

Like I said you made it an ideolgical thing not me....I'm actually interested in a nice conversation/debate....which is a great way to learn from each other....

Anyway back to the point of the thread....





Subtle inferences aside, right?



Something about all of those uninsured/underinsured, but I guess you missed that part of the article

And no I didn't miss that...and agree with it....

[CornfieldCounty]

And no I didn't miss that...and agree with it....

Then why did you ask?

[Big Red Rick]

The hospital gets stuck with her unpaid bills. Thus, bankrutpcies like this drive up the cost of health care for all of us.

It's a big problem the new health care plan tries to address.

And before you complain about the new health care plan, explain what Republicans did for 8 years to address the ever-growing health care problem in this country? Never mind -- we know. Nothing. Except pass an unfunded mandate (another example of Pub hypocrisy).

On a very high level, the new health care law will not address this situation. We all will be stuck for paying everyone's medical bills regardless of the mandate. If she cannot afford a health plan, she will pay a fine, per Obama's individual mandate, and then receive the healthcare anyway.

And, your first statement is one reason health care costs so much anyway. Illegal aliens, for example, have cause hospitals in TX to shut down because the hospitals can no longer afford to provide care. Those doctors expect to get paid, and if there is no money coming in from those that are treated, there is no money to pay those caregivers.

Money in, money out. I know it is a foreign concept to libs and we really can't expect any of them to understand that.

[Big Red Rick]

Actually I believe a little something nicknamed "RomneyCare" was created and endorsed by the Heritage Foundation. Any similarities to "Obamacare" are purely coincidental and should have no bearing on the smear campaign against the vile and evil healthcare bill passed by the Democrats. Yup, no similarities whatsoever.

Heritage reviewed and rolled back their support of social health care laws. http://www.redstate.com/jeff_emanuel...or-romneycare/
In short: “since [the passage and implementation of Obamacare], a growing body of research has provided a strong basis to conclude that any government insurance mandate is not only unnecessary, but is a bad policy option.”


Complete brief
http://blog.heritage.org/wp-content/...f-05-11-11.pdf

[RedPhoenix]

On a very high level, the new health care law will not address this situation. We all will be stuck for paying everyone's medical bills regardless of the mandate. If she cannot afford a health plan, she will pay a fine, per Obama's individual mandate, and then receive the healthcare anyway.

And, your first statement is one reason health care costs so much anyway. Illegal aliens, for example, have cause hospitals in TX to shut down because the hospitals can no longer afford to provide care. Those doctors expect to get paid, and if there is no money coming in from those that are treated, there is no money to pay those caregivers.

Money in, money out. I know it is a foreign concept to libs and we really can't expect any of them to understand that.

Reagan ruined this country.

[Big Red Rick]

Reagan ruined this country.

Well, I'd agree with you, but then we'd both be wrong.

[RedPhoenix]

Well, I'd agree with you, but then we'd both be wrong.

[ChitownHusker]

I was hoping you would not stop and actually find the answer for yourself.. Bankruptcies and no health care are but a small piece of the pie, let alone what Obamacare would actually cover. But I am sure you all knew that before you like to bang on the "Hypocritical Righties Drum".

I would disagree with you there. I think we can all agree that the biggest problem with health care today is cost. The cost of health care is growing almost exponentially, and at more than the triple the rate of inflation.

There are many drivers of those cost increases. Some of them are trumpeted by Republicans and some of them are trumpeted by Democrats. The drivers include uncompensated care provided to the uninsured, undercompensated care as a result of the low rates paid by Medicare and Medicaid, lack of competition among insurance companies due to only a handful being authorized to do business in each state, emergency room care being utilized in lieu of ordinary doctor's visits and preventative care, sweetheart deals between insurance companies and hospitals building in automatic 10% increases, and the lack of limits on providing health care that is futile, unnecessary, or where the benefits don't outweigh the costs, and excessive and frivolous medical malpractice litigation.

From everything I've read, it's really difficult to disaggregate all these different drivers in studies. But if I had to guess, the cost of uncompensated care being passed on to paying customers would play a very large role. When a person who chose not to purchase insurance becomes catastrophically ill, whether through a car accident or cancer or other illness, the odds that they will be able to self-insure, that is to pay for their health care on their own, is very low. Yet we as a society still provide them with health care, knowing they won't be able to pay for it. Health care providers know in advance that there are irresponsible people who are choosing not to be insured, and that some of these people will incur expenses that they can't afford. They know they are going to sustain losses as a result. They build these losses into the cost of the health care they provide. The net result is that responsible people who choose to buy health care insurance to protect themselves and their families are forced to subsidize the irresponsible free-riders who choose not to purchase health care.

The individual mandate was originally a Republican idea that was proposed in response to Cilinton's failed health care reform proposal. It is an idea that is founded in the very Republican ideal of personal responsibility -- people should take responsibility for their own health care, and if they can't afford to self-insure a million dollar illness, then they should not be able to gamble with other people's money and avoid health insurance.

I still support the idea of an individual mandate, although I have doubts as to its constitutionality at the federal level. I would prefer that states would be the ones to impose the mandate rather than the federal government.

[Big Red Rick]

I would disagree with you there. I think we can all agree that the biggest problem with health care today is cost. The cost of health care is growing almost exponentially, and at more than the triple the rate of inflation.

There are many drivers of those cost increases. Some of them are trumpeted by Republicans and some of them are trumpeted by Democrats. The drivers include uncompensated care provided to the uninsured, undercompensated care as a result of the low rates paid by Medicare and Medicaid, lack of competition among insurance companies due to only a handful being authorized to do business in each state, emergency room care being utilized in lieu of ordinary doctor's visits and preventative care, sweetheart deals between insurance companies and hospitals building in automatic 10% increases, and the lack of limits on providing health care that is futile, unnecessary, or where the benefits don't outweigh the costs, and excessive and frivolous medical malpractice litigation.

From everything I've read, it's really difficult to disaggregate all these different drivers in studies. But if I had to guess, the cost of uncompensated care being passed on to paying customers would play a very large role. When a person who chose not to purchase insurance becomes catastrophically ill, whether through a car accident or cancer or other illness, the odds that they will be able to self-insure, that is to pay for their health care on their own, is very low. Yet we as a society still provide them with health care, knowing they won't be able to pay for it. Health care providers know in advance that there are irresponsible people who are choosing not to be insured, and that some of these people will incur expenses that they can't afford. They know they are going to sustain losses as a result. They build these losses into the cost of the health care they provide. The net result is that responsible people who choose to buy health care insurance to protect themselves and their families are forced to subsidize the irresponsible free-riders who choose not to purchase health care.

The individual mandate was originally a Republican idea that was proposed in response to Cilinton's failed health care reform proposal. It is an idea that is founded in the very Republican ideal of personal responsibility -- people should take responsibility for their own health care, and if they can't afford to self-insure a million dollar illness, then they should not be able to gamble with other people's money and avoid health insurance.

I still support the idea of an individual mandate, although I have doubts as to its constitutionality at the federal level. I would prefer that states would be the ones to impose the mandate rather than the federal government.

You support the idea that insurance should be required to live?

[ChitownHusker]

You support the idea that insurance should be required to live?

What?

[huskrthill]

What?

I think he meant to ask if you support purchasing insurance as a requirement to simply being alive in this country.

[Formo]

I'm pretty sure Ron Paul's got a good idea for the healthcare issue. But people these days are too busy slinging mud ('pubs/demos) to bother listening, much less actually putting the plan in action.

[ChitownHusker]

I think he meant to ask if you support purchasing insurance as a requirement to simply being alive in this country.

I don't think the individual mandate should apply to people who are dead.

[ColoREDo]

I don't think the individual mandate should apply to people who are dead.

Undead?

[huskrthill]

I don't think the individual mandate should apply to people who are dead.

Might as well... they are still being taxed.

I truly believe that one of the easiest ways to reduce health care costs in this country is to encourage providers to publish their prices for various procedures. It's amazing how much people will comparison shop for a Blu-Ray player or an Xbox, but they have no idea how much it actually costs to visit their doctor.

Make health care providers compete, and prices will drop.

[CornfieldCounty]

I would disagree with you there. I think we can all agree that the biggest problem with health care today is cost. The cost of health care is growing almost exponentially, and at more than the triple the rate of inflation.

I dont disagree in the slightest.

There are many drivers of those cost increases. Some of them are trumpeted by Republicans and some of them are trumpeted by Democrats. The drivers include uncompensated care provided to the uninsured, undercompensated care as a result of the low rates paid by Medicare and Medicaid, lack of competition among insurance companies due to only a handful being authorized to do business in each state, emergency room care being utilized in lieu of ordinary doctor's visits and preventative care, sweetheart deals between insurance companies and hospitals building in automatic 10% increases, and the lack of limits on providing health care that is futile, unnecessary, or where the benefits don't outweigh the costs, and excessive and frivolous medical malpractice litigation.

Again, cannot disagree with anything.

From everything I've read, it's really difficult to disaggregate all these different drivers in studies. But if I had to guess, the cost of uncompensated care being passed on to paying customers would play a very large role. When a person who chose not to purchase insurance becomes catastrophically ill, whether through a car accident or cancer or other illness, the odds that they will be able to self-insure, that is to pay for their health care on their own, is very low. Yet we as a society still provide them with health care, knowing they won't be able to pay for it. Health care providers know in advance that there are irresponsible people who are choosing not to be insured, and that some of these people will incur expenses that they can't afford. They know they are going to sustain losses as a result. They build these losses into the cost of the health care they provide. The net result is that responsible people who choose to buy health care insurance to protect themselves and their families are forced to subsidize the irresponsible free-riders who choose not to purchase health care.

Yes, a patient cannot be turned away for medical in an emergency situations, however every hospital, including those that are government run, will refuse to see you without financial responsibility, including medicaid assistance on site. I would venture a guess that the majority of those uninsured loss's come from undocumented and illegal workers and not those as what the original OP had suggested.

The individual mandate was originally a Republican idea that was proposed in response to Cilinton's failed health care reform proposal. It is an idea that is founded in the very Republican ideal of personal responsibility -- people should take responsibility for their own health care, and if they can't afford to self-insure a million dollar illness, then they should not be able to gamble with other people's money and avoid health insurance.

I still support the idea of an individual mandate, although I have doubts as to its constitutionality at the federal level. I would prefer that states would be the ones to impose the mandate rather than the federal government.

Whether it is a Republican or Democrat idea is really immaterial, its a government idea. Again, as I posted a while back, the number of uninsured that truly need assistance is a small percentage of the population and could be covered very easily instead of a mandate like Obamacare.

[ChitownHusker]

Might as well... they are still being taxed.

I truly believe that one of the easiest ways to reduce health care costs in this country is to encourage providers to publish their prices for various procedures. It's amazing how much people will comparison shop for a Blu-Ray player or an Xbox, but they have no idea how much it actually costs to visit their doctor.

Make health care providers compete, and prices will drop.

I agree 100% with you on increasing transparency in health care pricing.

I also think the idea of keeping some out-of-pocket component of health care procedures -- people might be more discerning consumers if it was going to cost them something.