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Thread: How We All Got Stuck Paying the Medical Bills of the Woman Who Sued to Kill Obamacare

  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by CornfieldCounty View Post
    I dont disagree in the slightest.



    Again, cannot disagree with anything.



    Yes, a patient cannot be turned away for medical in an emergency situations, however every hospital, including those that are government run, will refuse to see you without financial responsibility, including medicaid assistance on site. I would venture a guess that the majority of those uninsured loss's come from undocumented and illegal workers and not those as what the original OP had suggested.



    Whether it is a Republican or Democrat idea is really immaterial, its a government idea. Again, as I posted a while back, the number of uninsured that truly need assistance is a small percentage of the population and could be covered very easily instead of a mandate like Obamacare.
    Only about 15 percent of the uninsured are illegal immigrants. http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...-about-46-mil/ Many of the uninsured are young people who can afford insurance but choose not to get it because the risks of getting sick is low. The health care that is provided to such people extends well beyond emergency treatment. A 25 year old who contracts cancer will still get chemo even if he is uninsured.

    If you don't have a mandate, how do you deal with the problem of people who can afford insurance choosing not to get it, and the cost of their health care costs being passed on to other consumers when they become ill and cannot afford to pay?
    "The distinctive mark of the Christian, today more than ever, must be love for the poor, the weak, the suffering." Pope John Paul II


  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by huskrthill View Post
    Might as well... they are still being taxed.
    You mention this in jest, and I'm sure you understand the joke, but unfortunately this is a common misconception.

    We don't tax the dead. We tax the recipients of the deads' assets. To those recipients, that's certainly a form of income.

    I truly believe that one of the easiest ways to reduce health care costs in this country is to encourage providers to publish their prices for various procedures. It's amazing how much people will comparison shop for a Blu-Ray player or an Xbox, but they have no idea how much it actually costs to visit their doctor.

    Make health care providers compete, and prices will drop.
    Price comparison is important to completion... Unfortunately, in professional fields, price is only the beginning... Care varies greatly, and to a degree, price reflects the level of care.

    I think what you are also driving at is the idea we should increase deductibles and decrease elective care coverage so individuals internalize the cost of their care. That certainly plays a part in the debate, but I'm not sure it would bring overall costs down much... Rather, it may just reallocate them; again, that may not be a bad thing, but it goes to th heart of insurance finance theory.
    "We need education in the obvious more than investigation of the obscure."

    "If you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect."

    “A stupid man's report of what a clever man says can never be accurate, because he unconsciously translates what he hears into something he can understand.”

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChitownHusker View Post
    If you don't have a mandate, how do you deal with the problem of people who can afford insurance choosing not to get it, and the cost of their health care costs being passed on to other consumers when they become ill and cannot afford to pay?
    As a matter of principle, I don't like the idea of a mandate. But as a matter of practicality and fairness, I don't see a reasonable alternative - to a mandate at state level.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChitownHusker View Post
    Only about 15 percent of the uninsured are illegal immigrants. http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...-about-46-mil/ Many of the uninsured are young people who can afford insurance but choose not to get it because the risks of getting sick is low. The health care that is provided to such people extends well beyond emergency treatment. A 25 year old who contracts cancer will still get chemo even if he is uninsured.

    If you don't have a mandate, how do you deal with the problem of people who can afford insurance choosing not to get it, and the cost of their health care costs being passed on to other consumers when they become ill and cannot afford to pay?
    The numbers as I have been told by more than one in the industry - 12 million illegal immigrants, 12 million already qualify for medicaid/medicare, 12 million choose not to carry, leaving 12 million to cover.

    Personal responsibility. A part of that is presenting costs and ramifications to those who do not wish to have it.

    Some people are born on third base and go through life thinking they hit a triple. - Barry Switzer

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  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by McKinneyTXHusker View Post
    As a matter of principle, I don't like the idea of a mandate. But as a matter of practicality and fairness, I don't see a reasonable alternative - to a mandate at state level.
    Pretty much my position.

    Though I'm not wedded to the notion it must be state run... I'd have to the economic studies... Seems the bigger the pool, the better.
    "We need education in the obvious more than investigation of the obscure."

    "If you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect."

    “A stupid man's report of what a clever man says can never be accurate, because he unconsciously translates what he hears into something he can understand.”

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by cm husker View Post
    Pretty much my position.

    Though I'm not wedded to the notion it must be state run... I'd have to the economic studies... Seems the bigger the pool, the better.
    All for "the greater good." It's like Shawn Of The Dead.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by huskrthill View Post
    All for "the greater good." It's like Shawn Of The Dead.
    Classic movie. But I'm not advocating killing graffitiers... yet.

    Anyway, yeah, when it means that the responsible among us have to pay for the irresponsible (i.e. the ones who can afford health insurance, risk going without it, and then expect us to pay when something bad happens), I think it is better to mandate that they buy insurance.

    Of course, irresponsible may be too strong of a word; it might be economically self-interested to "risk" the low probability of uninsured health problems for a 25 year old male. But, that's where society probably needs to step in and say, "nope, you don't get to take that risk" just like we tell the safest demographics among drivers that the still must buy car insurance.
    "We need education in the obvious more than investigation of the obscure."

    "If you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect."

    “A stupid man's report of what a clever man says can never be accurate, because he unconsciously translates what he hears into something he can understand.”

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by cm husker View Post
    Classic movie. But I'm not advocating killing graffitiers... yet.

    Anyway, yeah, when it means that the responsible among us have to pay for the irresponsible (i.e. the ones who can afford health insurance, risk going without it, and then expect us to pay when something bad happens), I think it is better to mandate that they buy insurance.

    Of course, irresponsible may be too strong of a word; it might be economically self-interested to "risk" the low probability of uninsured health problems for a 25 year old male. But, that's where society probably needs to step in and say, "nope, you don't get to take that risk" just like we tell the safest demographics among drivers that the still must buy car insurance.
    And individual liberty, which you so adamantly claim to defend when it comes to substance abuse, erodes further.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by McKinneyTXHusker View Post
    As a matter of principle, I don't like the idea of a mandate. But as a matter of practicality and fairness, I don't see a reasonable alternative - to a mandate at state level.

    To paraphrase Winston Churchill, an individual mandate is the worst way to deal with this problem, except for all of the other alternatives.
    "The distinctive mark of the Christian, today more than ever, must be love for the poor, the weak, the suffering." Pope John Paul II


  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by huskrthill View Post
    And individual liberty, which you so adamantly claim to defend when it comes to substance abuse, erodes further.
    You are completely confusing my drug policy arguments with those of some of the strident libertarians on this board.

    I'm not sure I've ever argued that someone should have an inherent right to use drugs based on notions of liberty.

    My thoughts on a mandate are entirely consistent with the logic I employ when evaluating US drug policy.
    "We need education in the obvious more than investigation of the obscure."

    "If you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect."

    “A stupid man's report of what a clever man says can never be accurate, because he unconsciously translates what he hears into something he can understand.”




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