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Thread: More Americans Relying on Government Benefits

  1. #61
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    Red_in_Blue_Land's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cm husker View Post
    From the perspective of government, it should be based on whether the activity or issue is harmful to economic growth.
    That still doesn't answer my question, even for economic growth, that cannot be done "without worrying about whether something conforms with our personal sense of fairness, morality, or altruism."
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  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by cm husker View Post
    From the perspective of government, it should be based on whether the activity or issue is harmful to economic growth.
    So your agenda is economic growth.
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  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red_in_Blue_Land View Post
    That still doesn't answer my question, even for economic growth, that cannot be done "without worrying about whether something conforms with our personal sense of fairness, morality, or altruism."
    Yeah, pretty much it can.

    We identify the goal, determine what is needed to achieve that goal, develop a system to raise the revenue to fund the program, and implement it.

    We really don't have to worry about whether something is "fair" or not.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by huskrthill View Post
    So your agenda is economic growth.
    Yes.

    And if I actually thought a socialist system would get us there, I'd be all for it. But, it doesn't, so I'm not.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red_in_Blue_Land View Post
    Federal/government spending is a very inefficient way to promote economic growth, is this a bland statement that would indicate any growth is growth or should we adhere to efficient growth?
    So then how do tax hikes deal with the bolded?
    Taxes fund pro growth initiatives. Despite what some seem to believe, 0% taxes doesn't actually foster the most growth; not to mention, we have certain costs associated with the infrastructure and institutional costs necessary to creating a stable government entity which foster growth.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by cm husker View Post
    Yes.

    And if I actually thought a socialist system would get us there, I'd be all for it. But, it doesn't, so I'm not.
    Ok, so you DO have an agenda, contrary to your earlier post.
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  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by huskrthill View Post
    Ok, so you DO have an agenda, contrary to your earlier post.
    I don't have a political or ideological agenda.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by cm husker View Post
    I don't have a political or ideological agenda.
    But you certainly must understand how they are intertwined. And that there is likely no 100% certain path to success, even in economics. So you're going to get disagreements about what works, how it works, why it works, why it theoretically should work, etc. Within all of that, you have a human element that can be extremely unpredictable. So when developing realistic solutions, it's not really possible to completely separate the different aspects.
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  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by huskrthill View Post
    But you certainly must understand how they are intertwined. And that there is likely no 100% certain path to success, even in economics. So you're going to get disagreements about what works, how it works, why it works, why it theoretically should work, etc. Within all of that, you have a human element that can be extremely unpredictable. So when developing realistic solutions, it's not really possible to completely separate the different aspects.
    We should definitely strive to, though.

    What really makes me feel frustrated is when Bush's economic advisers recommend something, but Dems attack it. Then a few years later, Obama's team recommends the same strategy, and Pubs attack it.

    Very frustrating.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by cm husker View Post
    We should definitely strive to, though.

    What really makes me feel frustrated is when Bush's economic advisers recommend something, but Dems attack it. Then a few years later, Obama's team recommends the same strategy, and Pubs attack it.

    Very frustrating.
    I agree that attacking a policy just because it is proposed by one party or another is frustrating and ridiculous. It would be nice if things could just be decided on their own merit. I think we all fall into the trap at times, though.
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  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by cm husker View Post
    Taxes fund pro growth initiatives. Despite what some seem to believe, 0% taxes doesn't actually foster the most growth; not to mention, we have certain costs associated with the infrastructure and institutional costs necessary to creating a stable government entity which foster growth.
    Even if it is in-efficient growth?
    Can you show me where some on this board promote 0% taxes?
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  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by cm husker View Post
    I don't have a political or ideological agenda.
    Are you sure?
    "The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities." Ayn Rand

    "Hillary has been cheated on more than a blind woman playing Scrabble. With gypsies." Dennis Miller

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red_in_Blue_Land View Post
    Even if it is in-efficient growth?
    Can you show me where some on this board promote 0% taxes?
    Of course we should avoid inefficiencies. Where would you get an idea otherwise?

    Not all government spending is automatically inefficient. Sometimes collective investment is the best option.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red_in_Blue_Land View Post
    Are you sure?
    Yep.

    I reckon you'll once again try to misconstrue a post I made a while back regarding "socio-political" goal of taxing the very wealthy in order to avoid a "peasant uprising."

    But, as I've tried to explain to you many a time, but to no avail, my motive for that stance isn't out of a sense of "fairness" but rather because I think the peasant uprising would be extremely detrimental to our nation's economic (and overall) health.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by cm husker View Post
    Yep.

    I reckon you'll once again try to misconstrue a post I made a while back regarding "socio-political" goal of taxing the very wealthy in order to avoid a "peasant uprising."

    But, as I've tried to explain to you many a time, but to no avail, my motive for that stance isn't out of a sense of "fairness" but rather because I think the peasant uprising would be extremely detrimental to our nation's economic (and overall) health.
    "Peasant uprising", if you say so. I will take your explination of past posting stances as some level of progress.
    "The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities." Ayn Rand

    "Hillary has been cheated on more than a blind woman playing Scrabble. With gypsies." Dennis Miller







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